Any guesses on B8 A4 U.S. engine offerings?
02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
#1
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Any guesses on B8 A4 U.S. engine offerings?
I know that some version of the current 2.0T engine will carry on, but I hope Audi gives it a 20-30 hp boost to keep up with the likes of the 328i and C300. That would mean that the V6 engine (3.2 or larger) would have to offer at least 280 hp to provide enough separation between the two models. Unfortuantely, a normally aspirated engine with 280 hp won't be enough to make it competitive with the 335i, IS350 or G35. So I'm hoping for a nice, even 300 hp.
Finally, I know that as an owner of a 2006 2.0T I will get flamed for saying this, but I think if the A4 is to be viewed as a serious leader or contender in the compact sport sedan market, it needs to drop the 4-cylinder engines all together for the U.S. market. The C-Class (for 2008), 3-Series, Lexus IS, G35, CTS, etc. all offer six cylinder engines on their base models
I'm happy with the power of my car but the engine sounds terrible and embarassing at idle. The other day at soccer practice I pulled up to a parking spot in front of where my cousin was standing. He heard the engine note and was sure that there was something seriously wrong with my car and I needed take it in to the dealer. I had to explain to him that the diesel sounding idle sound is a 'feature' of the FSI engine.
If Audi wants to pursue the upmarket strategy and charge more for their offerings, they need to get rid of the 2.0T engine. Flame suit on!
Finally, I know that as an owner of a 2006 2.0T I will get flamed for saying this, but I think if the A4 is to be viewed as a serious leader or contender in the compact sport sedan market, it needs to drop the 4-cylinder engines all together for the U.S. market. The C-Class (for 2008), 3-Series, Lexus IS, G35, CTS, etc. all offer six cylinder engines on their base models
I'm happy with the power of my car but the engine sounds terrible and embarassing at idle. The other day at soccer practice I pulled up to a parking spot in front of where my cousin was standing. He heard the engine note and was sure that there was something seriously wrong with my car and I needed take it in to the dealer. I had to explain to him that the diesel sounding idle sound is a 'feature' of the FSI engine.
If Audi wants to pursue the upmarket strategy and charge more for their offerings, they need to get rid of the 2.0T engine. Flame suit on!
02-13-2007, 01:58 PM
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Re: Any guesses on B8 A4 U.S. engine offerings?
Competition for the 335 is really the S4. M3's competition is the RS4.
Problem with bumping up power is that it's a ripple effect across the entire engine lineup.
Frankly, I like the four cylinder turbo, power from it is alright with me, I could chip it but don't really have any desire but that's just my opinion. I'm not embarrassed at all by the sound and in fact I wouldn't careless what others think. I didn't buy this car to impress others audibly. And I have zero desire for a V6.
Also, you look at the number of Audi's being sold out there, the folks here that wants more power and the modders, are the minority. Audi builds a car that suits the majority and which will sell well and their sales numbers speaks for themselves.
Problem with bumping up power is that it's a ripple effect across the entire engine lineup.
Frankly, I like the four cylinder turbo, power from it is alright with me, I could chip it but don't really have any desire but that's just my opinion. I'm not embarrassed at all by the sound and in fact I wouldn't careless what others think. I didn't buy this car to impress others audibly. And I have zero desire for a V6.
Also, you look at the number of Audi's being sold out there, the folks here that wants more power and the modders, are the minority. Audi builds a car that suits the majority and which will sell well and their sales numbers speaks for themselves.
02-13-2007, 02:19 PM
#6
That V6 in the C230 is a turd. The turbo 4 is one of the reasons I bought another Audi.
The beauty of the low pressure turbo is its tunability. We folks who tune may be in the minority but if Audi drops the turbo I think they'll lose business.
I think losing the turbo'd 4 would hurt their sporty image, personally.
I think losing the turbo'd 4 would hurt their sporty image, personally.
02-13-2007, 02:27 PM
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Unfortunately...(long)
"Audi builds a car that suits the majority and which will sell well and their sales numbers speaks for themselves."
And the sales numbers for the A4, at least in the US, pale in comparison to the 3-Series and C-Class. I realize that this is due to a number of issues, not just the fact that Audi is the only one that offers a 2.0T 4-cylinder in that class.
But, IMHO, to a certain extent, even though offering a 2.0T appeals to a good portion of Audi buyers, it's very possible that this turns off other buyers in this segment altogether. Unfair as it may sound, the 4-cylinder engine can create an image problem with people who buy cars in this segment. When all the other cars that you normally shop against the A4 have 6-cylinder engines for their base models, buyers who could care less about modding their cars could see the 4-cylinder as a minus.
I'm in no way disparaging the 2.0T, as I have it in both my cars, but if Audi wants to sell cars in the numbers that their competitors do, I honestly believe that a 4-cylinder should probably not be available in the A4. Educating grandma, grandpa, and wanna-be yuppie (is that still a word?) on the merits of the 2.0T in their A4 is pointless when what they see from the competitors are more cylinders, more displacement, and more power.
Someone said that they heard rumors about the 2.0T being limited to the A3 in the future. I think this has some merit. Would I buy an A4 if it only came in V6? Probably, but I would still look if it presented a good overall value compared to other cars in the segment.
And the sales numbers for the A4, at least in the US, pale in comparison to the 3-Series and C-Class. I realize that this is due to a number of issues, not just the fact that Audi is the only one that offers a 2.0T 4-cylinder in that class.
But, IMHO, to a certain extent, even though offering a 2.0T appeals to a good portion of Audi buyers, it's very possible that this turns off other buyers in this segment altogether. Unfair as it may sound, the 4-cylinder engine can create an image problem with people who buy cars in this segment. When all the other cars that you normally shop against the A4 have 6-cylinder engines for their base models, buyers who could care less about modding their cars could see the 4-cylinder as a minus.
I'm in no way disparaging the 2.0T, as I have it in both my cars, but if Audi wants to sell cars in the numbers that their competitors do, I honestly believe that a 4-cylinder should probably not be available in the A4. Educating grandma, grandpa, and wanna-be yuppie (is that still a word?) on the merits of the 2.0T in their A4 is pointless when what they see from the competitors are more cylinders, more displacement, and more power.
Someone said that they heard rumors about the 2.0T being limited to the A3 in the future. I think this has some merit. Would I buy an A4 if it only came in V6? Probably, but I would still look if it presented a good overall value compared to other cars in the segment.
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02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
#8
Audi sells many A4s BECAUSE they offer a 4 cylinder.
Audi will never be able to compete in direct sales volume with BWM and Mercedes.
The A4 is an affordable near luxury sports sedan, compared to BMW or Mercedes.
Eliminating the 2.0T means the overall price of the A4 line jumps right into 330 and C Class price range.
As far as the 6 cylinder "prestige factor" is concerned..... The majority of folks I've heard that from don't even know the difference between a V6 and an I6.
The A4 is an affordable near luxury sports sedan, compared to BMW or Mercedes.
Eliminating the 2.0T means the overall price of the A4 line jumps right into 330 and C Class price range.
As far as the 6 cylinder "prestige factor" is concerned..... The majority of folks I've heard that from don't even know the difference between a V6 and an I6.
02-13-2007, 02:50 PM
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I tend to agree....but...
We get a really twisted view of Audi ownership on this and other online forums. It is really a mirror image of reality. Online, the VAST majority of B7 A4 owners are younger than 30 (a sizeable group under 20 it seems) and pick the car specifically because it has a turbo and can be modded. In reality, the vast majority of A4 owners are well into their 30's and up, and "put up" with a 4 cylinder engine as a means to get into an entry-level luxury sedan.
As much as I think they should get rid of the turbo 4 banger in the A4 (something about a $40K car with an engine the size of a 2 litre bottle of soda is just wrong...), the reality is that I don't think they can afford to. Loaded V6 A4's sticker in the $45K range. That makes for a huge gap between the A3 (where the turbo 4 fits nicely) and the A4, and a tiny gap between the V6 A4 and the V6 A6. You just aren't going to get the "average" A4 buyer to pony up the $$ for a V6. Likewise, you are not likely to get them to step backwards into an A3 either. The result of eliminating the turbo 4 cylinder in the A4 would be a HEAP of lost sales for Audi. There is also history to contend with. While not so much the case anymore, during the 80's and 90's Audi was to a certain extent viewed as a more economical way to get a German car.
EXCLUDING turbo tuners for the moment, I have no idea why anyone would buy a 4 cylinder A4 over a entry level BMW or Merc with a V6. It pretty much comes down to styling, quattro, and lower cost.
While I personally cringe every time I see a turbo A4 "riced out", the fact of the matter is that there is a market niche there, and Audi is the only one filling it. And more importantly, it promotes a lot of brand awareness among young people who may grow into the Audi marque down the road.
As much as I think they should get rid of the turbo 4 banger in the A4 (something about a $40K car with an engine the size of a 2 litre bottle of soda is just wrong...), the reality is that I don't think they can afford to. Loaded V6 A4's sticker in the $45K range. That makes for a huge gap between the A3 (where the turbo 4 fits nicely) and the A4, and a tiny gap between the V6 A4 and the V6 A6. You just aren't going to get the "average" A4 buyer to pony up the $$ for a V6. Likewise, you are not likely to get them to step backwards into an A3 either. The result of eliminating the turbo 4 cylinder in the A4 would be a HEAP of lost sales for Audi. There is also history to contend with. While not so much the case anymore, during the 80's and 90's Audi was to a certain extent viewed as a more economical way to get a German car.
EXCLUDING turbo tuners for the moment, I have no idea why anyone would buy a 4 cylinder A4 over a entry level BMW or Merc with a V6. It pretty much comes down to styling, quattro, and lower cost.
While I personally cringe every time I see a turbo A4 "riced out", the fact of the matter is that there is a market niche there, and Audi is the only one filling it. And more importantly, it promotes a lot of brand awareness among young people who may grow into the Audi marque down the road.
02-13-2007, 02:57 PM
#10
The real beauty of the 2.0T is that is does not need to be tuned.....
The flat torque curve give it real world driving performance equal to (or better than) many 6 cylinders.