Stage 1 to Stage 2- worth it?
06-07-2012, 05:11 AM
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Stage 1 to Stage 2- worth it?
I use my car as a daily driver on the roads of Boston and mountain roads of Vermont for fun.
I am about to APR stage 1 my Audi A4 Avant. I was wondering how much of a real world benefit I will get by going to stage 2/2+? What benefits will I see and where? I've seen the graphs, now I'm looking for real world info.
Thanks!
I am about to APR stage 1 my Audi A4 Avant. I was wondering how much of a real world benefit I will get by going to stage 2/2+? What benefits will I see and where? I've seen the graphs, now I'm looking for real world info.
Thanks!
06-07-2012, 08:14 AM
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I basically have the same use for my car as you do (except Maine mountain roads!) and I've been very happy with my Stage 2 setup.
You will see incredible gains with just stage 1 and a lot of times if you want to go stage 2, you'll only need to pay the difference in retail price if you stick with the same chip dealer.
Stage 2 is fantastic and is relatively inexpensive to get to ($600 for my Unitronic chip and then $550 for my RAI HFC and DP...I did not do full exhaust since 95% of the gains are from upgrading your HFC and DP to something more flowing and I did not want to be ricey).
If you want to go stage 2+ you need to upgrade your HPFP (~$800-$1000), and perhaps consider switching from a side mounted intercooler to a front mounted one $$$. Your HP returns per dollar start to go down.
I'd say go straight to Stage 2 and if you still feel that it is not enough power (+60hp from stock) then go Stage 2+. It is ok to do it incrementally.
You will see incredible gains with just stage 1 and a lot of times if you want to go stage 2, you'll only need to pay the difference in retail price if you stick with the same chip dealer.
Stage 2 is fantastic and is relatively inexpensive to get to ($600 for my Unitronic chip and then $550 for my RAI HFC and DP...I did not do full exhaust since 95% of the gains are from upgrading your HFC and DP to something more flowing and I did not want to be ricey).
If you want to go stage 2+ you need to upgrade your HPFP (~$800-$1000), and perhaps consider switching from a side mounted intercooler to a front mounted one $$$. Your HP returns per dollar start to go down.
I'd say go straight to Stage 2 and if you still feel that it is not enough power (+60hp from stock) then go Stage 2+. It is ok to do it incrementally.
06-07-2012, 09:02 AM
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I basically have the same use for my car as you do (except Maine mountain roads!) and I've been very happy with my Stage 2 setup.
You will see incredible gains with just stage 1 and a lot of times if you want to go stage 2, you'll only need to pay the difference in retail price if you stick with the same chip dealer.
Stage 2 is fantastic and is relatively inexpensive to get to ($600 for my Unitronic chip and then $550 for my RAI HFC and DP...I did not do full exhaust since 95% of the gains are from upgrading your HFC and DP to something more flowing and I did not want to be ricey).
If you want to go stage 2+ you need to upgrade your HPFP (~$800-$1000), and perhaps consider switching from a side mounted intercooler to a front mounted one $$$. Your HP returns per dollar start to go down.
I'd say go straight to Stage 2 and if you still feel that it is not enough power (+60hp from stock) then go Stage 2+. It is ok to do it incrementally.
You will see incredible gains with just stage 1 and a lot of times if you want to go stage 2, you'll only need to pay the difference in retail price if you stick with the same chip dealer.
Stage 2 is fantastic and is relatively inexpensive to get to ($600 for my Unitronic chip and then $550 for my RAI HFC and DP...I did not do full exhaust since 95% of the gains are from upgrading your HFC and DP to something more flowing and I did not want to be ricey).
If you want to go stage 2+ you need to upgrade your HPFP (~$800-$1000), and perhaps consider switching from a side mounted intercooler to a front mounted one $$$. Your HP returns per dollar start to go down.
I'd say go straight to Stage 2 and if you still feel that it is not enough power (+60hp from stock) then go Stage 2+. It is ok to do it incrementally.
What is HFC and DP?
06-07-2012, 09:14 AM
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Unitronic is very good. It is better priced than APR, but it does not have the cruise-control stalk capabilities as APR does which allows you to switch between different programs like 93 octane, 91 oct, and valet for example. Unitronic is highly regarded among other enthusiasts (and so is APR). Some people like unitronic because the tunes can be customized for when you start going stage 2+ or Stage 3.
I would just go with a chip dealer that is closest to you. Gains-wise, APR, UNITRONIC, GIAC, REVO, etc. are all very similar.
HFC is high flow catalytic converter and DP is the down pipe. For 6mt, RAI will fab the HFC and DP as one piece which bolts straight to the turbo and then connects to the rest of your exhaust. For TIP, the HFC and DP are bolted together. 034 makes a reputable HFC, so I've heard. There are other options as well for the DP. I like RAI for both because i know they're compatible. These upgrades remove the bottle neck of exhaust gases that occurred with the old DP. With a Stage 2 tune, most chip tunes claim 6-10 HP games from Stage 1.
I travel to NH a lot, so I went with EFI Express in Lee, NH which deals Unitronic.
I would just go with a chip dealer that is closest to you. Gains-wise, APR, UNITRONIC, GIAC, REVO, etc. are all very similar.
HFC is high flow catalytic converter and DP is the down pipe. For 6mt, RAI will fab the HFC and DP as one piece which bolts straight to the turbo and then connects to the rest of your exhaust. For TIP, the HFC and DP are bolted together. 034 makes a reputable HFC, so I've heard. There are other options as well for the DP. I like RAI for both because i know they're compatible. These upgrades remove the bottle neck of exhaust gases that occurred with the old DP. With a Stage 2 tune, most chip tunes claim 6-10 HP games from Stage 1.
I travel to NH a lot, so I went with EFI Express in Lee, NH which deals Unitronic.
06-07-2012, 10:01 AM
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The required hardware would be either a full exhaust or just HFC/DP and the upgraded OEM revision D piston diverter valve (you do not need full metal DV from Forge, etc.). The old revision diverter valve had a rubber diaphragm that was susceptible to tearing under the increased boost pressure from an upgraded chip tune. (You basically go from something like 7 psi boost in a stock tune to 19 psi in a stage 2 tune.)
06-07-2012, 10:27 AM
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Hrm, I see. The problem I have is I have an automatic so I can't use the APR exhaust...
I guess I don't see the point in stage 2 if the gains are slow low, but stage 3 definitely shows improvements...
What about stage 3? It costs $4k so it's a hefty chunk of change but you get 318hp and 338lb-tq according to APR http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...t_fsi_k04.html . APR has another stage 3 kit that gets even better performance.
Would you see a massive change in driving with this kit from a stage 1 ECU chip? I'm tempted to try it, but would need to know how much in other parts it is going to cost me.
Would it be possible to buy a used turbo off eBay and use that instead of getting the stage 3 kit from APR? It would certainly be cheaper. Or is this not possible-- you won't see improvements or whatnot?
Regarding suspension:
I just bought a rear RS4 sway bar, which should help. Do you have a recommendation for coil overs? What do you use?
I still have stock 17" rims and really like them, so would prefer to stick to them rather than upgrade. The only downside is I can't use the S4 brakes, at least according to ECS tuning. I just put on new Hawk ceramic pads and Miele rotors.
I guess I don't see the point in stage 2 if the gains are slow low, but stage 3 definitely shows improvements...
What about stage 3? It costs $4k so it's a hefty chunk of change but you get 318hp and 338lb-tq according to APR http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...t_fsi_k04.html . APR has another stage 3 kit that gets even better performance.
Would you see a massive change in driving with this kit from a stage 1 ECU chip? I'm tempted to try it, but would need to know how much in other parts it is going to cost me.
Would it be possible to buy a used turbo off eBay and use that instead of getting the stage 3 kit from APR? It would certainly be cheaper. Or is this not possible-- you won't see improvements or whatnot?
Regarding suspension:
I just bought a rear RS4 sway bar, which should help. Do you have a recommendation for coil overs? What do you use?
I still have stock 17" rims and really like them, so would prefer to stick to them rather than upgrade. The only downside is I can't use the S4 brakes, at least according to ECS tuning. I just put on new Hawk ceramic pads and Miele rotors.
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06-07-2012, 10:31 AM
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Why is this HPFP kit so much cheaper than APR's (half the price)? What's the catch? http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...productId=1153
06-07-2012, 10:36 AM
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Why is this HPFP kit so much cheaper than APR's (half the price)? What's the catch? http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...productId=1153
06-07-2012, 10:37 AM
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Sorry, I don't see an edit button.
When does replacing the catback exhaust system net another 50hp/torque like claimed here? I assume this is only when you have a stage 3 car (and stage 3 itself means there is an upgraded turbo)?
http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...d&productId=54
When does replacing the catback exhaust system net another 50hp/torque like claimed here? I assume this is only when you have a stage 3 car (and stage 3 itself means there is an upgraded turbo)?
http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...d&productId=54