So what are the chances the dealership will fix my steering shimmy?
07-28-2010, 07:36 PM
#21
shimmy
Today's Update: I got a call back from the AoA rep after dinner. Apparently now the dealership is claiming its an alignment problem and that AoA "stands behind its dealer's diagnosis" (laugh). I asked how they came to the conclusion, the answer I got was that they took it for a test drive. I asked if they put it on an alignment machine to see if the toe/camber/etc. was out of spec, he said he didn't know. I then gave him the TSB number that covers the shimmy, explained that others have had the same exact problem.... including edmunds.com and had no problems getting the issue fixed under warranty. He said he would look up the TSB (the system was down, go figure) and get back to me.
Needless to say, tomorrow is going to be fun. I will be requesting a print out from the alignment machine, I will also be asking why they even suspect alignment even though the tires on the car show no signs of abnormal wear. I have driven cars in the past with alignment problems and I know the tires get chewed up pretty quickly. Also I would very likely be experiencing the whole car noticeably shaking and pulling to the side and the problem would likely get worse at speeds above 75-80mph instead of going away.
I have a feeling if I was just an average customer, that I would have been suckered into paying for a road force balance and then later an alignment (well over $300 worth of work) only for them to finally replace the control arms per the TSB and then turn around and refuse to refund my money for their "misdiagnosis" claiming it wasn't covered by warranty.
Needless to say, tomorrow is going to be fun. I will be requesting a print out from the alignment machine, I will also be asking why they even suspect alignment even though the tires on the car show no signs of abnormal wear. I have driven cars in the past with alignment problems and I know the tires get chewed up pretty quickly. Also I would very likely be experiencing the whole car noticeably shaking and pulling to the side and the problem would likely get worse at speeds above 75-80mph instead of going away.
I have a feeling if I was just an average customer, that I would have been suckered into paying for a road force balance and then later an alignment (well over $300 worth of work) only for them to finally replace the control arms per the TSB and then turn around and refuse to refund my money for their "misdiagnosis" claiming it wasn't covered by warranty.
07-28-2010, 08:00 PM
#22
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm completely baffled by your dealer and AOA not addressing the control arm issue with you. This has been a known issue and resolution for over a year. A dealer must do a road force balancing before getting approval for the replacement arms/bushings which apparently you have done. If the vibration is still there, the TSB calls for the dealer getting approval for the arms. Since Audi foots the bill, I'm very puzzled why the dealer is resisting the replacement.
As for alignment, it's pretty rare that a shimmy is caused by this although, I guess it's possible. I ran into this one time when a tire shop claimed my vibration was caused by misalignment after a road force balancing didn't solve it. Turned out his bloody machine was miscalibrated. Got a refund and had the dealer do it with complete success.
If you continue to be stonewalled after the alignment, I would recommend you call AOA back and politely insist that the issue be escalated. Request to be assigned to an "Executive Case Specialist". Trust me when I say those folks know their stuff and can get things done.
As for alignment, it's pretty rare that a shimmy is caused by this although, I guess it's possible. I ran into this one time when a tire shop claimed my vibration was caused by misalignment after a road force balancing didn't solve it. Turned out his bloody machine was miscalibrated. Got a refund and had the dealer do it with complete success.
If you continue to be stonewalled after the alignment, I would recommend you call AOA back and politely insist that the issue be escalated. Request to be assigned to an "Executive Case Specialist". Trust me when I say those folks know their stuff and can get things done.
The fact is, they want money. I'm not willing to give them any because I really don't want to have to fight them to get a refund when they finally acknowledge the control arms are the issue. Clearly they would have taken my money for a wheel balance that wasn't the problem since they already "diagnosed" it as a wheel alignment problem (even though it sounds like the car never saw an alignment machine). The good news is they are replacing my fuel door lock servo (I was having trouble with it not unlocking from time to time, thank god it threw a fault code). I haven't heard anything about if they fixed the low speed steering wheel studder, but I will be confirming everything before I leave for the dealership.
07-28-2010, 08:17 PM
#23
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
07-29-2010, 03:23 AM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
Anything in particular you can think of thats missing? Really, this is what I'm going through. I know I'm not alone in getting a dealer to properly and promptly address this issue. This guy ran into the same stonewalling, although he does have aftermarket wheels http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ring-Vibration . In my case there should be no questioning, I have OEM rims and tires on my car. Needless to say, these guys pretty much lost future business from me... but they likely could care less. The only reason why the car is at a dealer to begin with is that its the only place that can do warranty work.
1. You try to get the service mgr to agree up front that you will pay for the alignment but if it doesn't solve the vibration, they will refund the cost and proceed with the control arm TSB
2. If the alignment is indeed needed (it happens), pay for it and hope they are willing to proceed with the control arms if the vibration is still there.
(Four wheel mis-alignments do occur over time with potholes, etc. It could be that you really are out of spec and it needs to be done. If it's unrelated to the vibration issue, you have to bear the cost as a separate issue and proceed from there. As you said, have them show you the readouts).
3. Escalate with AOA as I suggested and hope they will change their mind to support the control arm swap and a reimbursement of any alignment cost if it was uneeded.
In any case, I could not live with the vibration I had before my control arms were replaced. BTW, the dealer included the cost of a force balance before concluding it didn't solve the vibration issue. Then did it again at n/c after the arms were replaced. My A4 was less than six months old when the control arm issue was recognized by Audi. How long have you had yours?
07-29-2010, 10:49 AM
#25
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Day 3 Update: I have my car back and they did the power steering hose replacement so we got something done without a problem. Anyway I got the background on the whole alignment thing.
Apparently the tech noticed feathering in my passenger rear tire and recommended the alignment. There was an error in communication between the dealer and AoA that I will have to resolve later today. Just to be clear, the alignment issue had nothing to do with the steering wheel shimmy.
Regarding AoA, the customer service rep. insisted that there is no such TSB for my car to begin with....please.... can anyone here get a copy of this TSB? I'm running into multiple levels of fail here. I tried to get one out of the dealership and they basically told me no, no, and no.
As for the alignment issue, I had the car aligned at another Audi dealership back in December. I will be giving that dealership a call and try to resolve that problem.
Finally, why is it that dealerships positively refuse to put cars up on the alignment machine to simply check the camber/toe? They claim if it goes on, I have to pay to have the alignment done. Odd, because another local dealer here has service coupons offering... free alignment checks.
Apparently the tech noticed feathering in my passenger rear tire and recommended the alignment. There was an error in communication between the dealer and AoA that I will have to resolve later today. Just to be clear, the alignment issue had nothing to do with the steering wheel shimmy.
Regarding AoA, the customer service rep. insisted that there is no such TSB for my car to begin with....please.... can anyone here get a copy of this TSB? I'm running into multiple levels of fail here. I tried to get one out of the dealership and they basically told me no, no, and no.
As for the alignment issue, I had the car aligned at another Audi dealership back in December. I will be giving that dealership a call and try to resolve that problem.
Finally, why is it that dealerships positively refuse to put cars up on the alignment machine to simply check the camber/toe? They claim if it goes on, I have to pay to have the alignment done. Odd, because another local dealer here has service coupons offering... free alignment checks.
07-29-2010, 12:09 PM
#26
NJRF,
You already have the TSB don't you in Bentley? If you don't have that one, I can send it to you via email.
I know the version has changed but the fundamental base TSB number is the same. I know it doesn't detail the control arm fix but we don't know that the later version does either. I suspect that the TSB is still the same and that Audi contact is still required via the TAC to authorize the control arms.
The Audi rep is probably tier 1 and not the right person to be hunting TSBs by the sound of it.
I actually think at this point, you might just be better finding another dealer - one that is more willing to work with you. It is apparent that this dealer just doesn't want to fix your shimmy problem.
I can give you the name of my service advisor that worked with me and was fantastic during the whole process.
John.
You already have the TSB don't you in Bentley? If you don't have that one, I can send it to you via email.
I know the version has changed but the fundamental base TSB number is the same. I know it doesn't detail the control arm fix but we don't know that the later version does either. I suspect that the TSB is still the same and that Audi contact is still required via the TAC to authorize the control arms.
The Audi rep is probably tier 1 and not the right person to be hunting TSBs by the sound of it.
I actually think at this point, you might just be better finding another dealer - one that is more willing to work with you. It is apparent that this dealer just doesn't want to fix your shimmy problem.
I can give you the name of my service advisor that worked with me and was fantastic during the whole process.
John.
07-29-2010, 01:21 PM
#27
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
I actually think at this point, you might just be better finding another dealer - one that is more willing to work with you. It is apparent that this dealer just doesn't want to fix your shimmy problem.
I can give you the name of my service advisor that worked with me and was fantastic during the whole process.
John.
Now I don't know what the actual control arm TSB says, but that last part just doesn't sound right. Having an actual copy of the document, particularly the page that lists the dealership reimbursement costs for the repair would be helpful in that regard. I have a call in for the AoA rep., I will try and continue to get the problem resolved.
07-29-2010, 01:40 PM
#28
Funny you say that. I did call another dealership today (the one that did my alignment back in December). The person I spoke to was much more helpful. He was aware of the TSB and control arm replacement, unlike the other dealer. I did ask him if I would have to pay for the road force balance, he did state that I would. I then asked that if the road force didn't solve the issue and the control arms were replaced per the TSB if I would receive any sort of refund for the balance, he clearly stated no. He stated that my car is outside of the 1 year/12k mile "adjustment" portion of the warranty.
You shouldn't need the latest version (and nobody has it anyway AFAIK). It does appear that being over 12k/1Yr is an issue. Maybe the later TSB version does make a differentiation on these terms. I know on my car that replacement of the tires was stated as only being covered up to 6k miles. Beyond that some mention of 50% warranty was mentioned but I can't imagine that this would be much past 1yr.
If you really want to get it resolved, it might be worth working with the second dealer (as they seem to want to work with you and are aware of the control arms/TSB). Much as you don't feel that it is right, pony up for the RF balance with the dealer. If they try to return the car to you, drive it with somebody before accepting the car back. If the fault isn't solved then leave the car with them (so they don't have to RF again). The point here is that the cost of a RF balance is going to be cheaper than the control arms and installation. In the long run, you really want the control arms
Your risk is that they find a tire (or multiples) that won't RF balance. At that point you're outside the tire warranty and Audi may refuse to do the arms until a tire is corrected.
Cheers,
John.
07-30-2010, 02:09 PM
#29
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Anything in particular you can think of thats missing? Really, this is what I'm going through. I know I'm not alone in getting a dealer to properly and promptly address this issue. This guy ran into the same stonewalling, although he does have aftermarket wheels http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ring-Vibration . In my case there should be no questioning, I have OEM rims and tires on my car. Needless to say, these guys pretty much lost future business from me... but they likely could care less. The only reason why the car is at a dealer to begin with is that its the only place that can do warranty work.
08-01-2010, 03:42 AM
#30
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no you are not alone i had to bring mines back 3 times before they finally change the lower control arms and reflash my trans for the sticky second gear problem. after i got the car back everything was fine for about 2 weeks, thats when the wheel shimmies started to happen again but this time at 45 to 55 mph. when i hit 60 mph and up it dissappears needless to say this drove me nuts, the car is only 1 yr old to date with 6400 miles, between the 2nd gear issue and the wheel shimmies i just didnt want to deal with it anymore so i traded it in for acura tsx with the tech package. i have always wanted to own a german built car but after owning my first audi i dont think i will be visiting their dealerships anytime soon to many horror stories about the b8 from the s4 forum to this one.
And, for the record, there is a reason as to why your control arm fix (and other fixes) only worked for short period of time. They were improperly performed by your ultra clearly incompetent Audi dealer(s).
BTW, once your Acura starts breaking down (which it most likely will, FWIW), I suggest you buy a vehicle from one of the following brands and corporations: Ford Motors (which is now excellent because of downsizing for Ford, Ford Truck, Lincoln and Mercury), Fuji Motors (which is now Daihatsu, Fuji Industries, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki), Hyundai Motors (which is Hyundai and Kia) and Nissan Motors (which is Infiniti, Nissan, Nissan Truck and Renault).
I would recommend the upcoming new Buick Gran Sport, Cadillac, the Chevrolet Camaro and Corvette and the Dodge Challenger. However, Chrysler Motors (which is now Chrysler, Dodge, Dodge Truck and Jeep) and General Motors (which is now Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC; Chevrolet Truck is going bye bye sometime from model year 2011 to model year 2014) have an extremely uncertain future. Therefore, I cannot recommend the Chrysler vehicle and four General Motors vehicles I mentioned in this paragraph. It is a massive shame, too, as these five American brand vehicles truly are excellent vehicles
Oh, well, you win some; you lose some, as the old saying goes. 
Stay far, far away from all Europeans outside of the Volkswagen/Audi Group (especially the following: Aston Martin, the BMW Group-BMW, BMW Motorcycle, Mini and Rolls Royce and non exotic British brands such as Gaguar-err-Jaguar) and Toyota Motors (Lexus, Scion, Toyota and Toyota Truck) as they, too have serious enough problems (and, now, poor enough service from dealerships and importers) to make the Volkswagen/Audi Group's problems in North America (and the poor service from Volkswagen/Audi Group brand dealerships and importers in North America) look like nothing by comparison.