A4Driver

Where's The Freakin' Oil?

These last couple of years of A4 ownership, I've been changing my oil twice a year, but the oil filter only once. I don't put many miles on my car, so I figure the filter still has a lot of life in it and is good for the whole year.

I changed my oil and filter in January, so I'm just changing my oil this time around. And I thought I'd do it today, since I'm leaving on a long drive tomorrow.

The problem is, my Pella extractor only drained out about two quarts of oil. Even though I kept re-pumping it about every five minutes to get the oil flow going, all I would get is a little oil and a lot of air bubbles -- like you get when your crankcase is empty.

Now before somebody says I'm doing something wrong, I've been using a Pella extractor for about six years or more and have always had satisfactory results, and have always been able to extract 4.5 to 5 quarts of old oil. I adjust and readjust the hose in the dipstick tube to make sure it's hitting the bottom of the crankcase. And the dipstick showed me that my crankcase was indeed dry.

So, I put in two quarts of fresh Castrol 5w-40 synthetic, and when I put the dipstick back in to check my oil level, the dipstick indicated that my oil level was full. Which leads me to believe that there still was another 2 to 3 quarts of oil in my crankcase. So why wasn't it being sucked up by the extractor? And why wasn't it showing up on the dipstick?

Yes, I know I could have removed the car's belly pan and drained the oil from below, but I just don't have time for that today and am leaving tomorrow at the crack of dawn. Also, I checked the Pella's hose and there are no cracks in it that would let air in it. In fact, after my initial pumping of the extractor, the oil was flowing like a faucet. But when I went back to check on things 15 minutes later, the flow was reduced to mostly air bubbles.

Anybody have any idea where the oil went?
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BMWBig6

I used a fluid extractor to remove some oil from my truck (dealer overfilled slightly) and it was a PITA to find the "sweet spot" where I could extract fluid without a lot of bubbles. Sounds like you have a better tool and more experience using it, so trust your gut if you think something is amiss. Maybe you just had a kink in your hose, or it got wedged or "trapped" in the corner of the pan somewhere?

BillBoost37

If you were able to remove 2 quarts, then when you added two quarts it was back to the proper level....the oil is in the crankcase where it belongs.

I am not a fan of extractors because they do not drain the system as well as pulling a plug. Sounds like there was either a lack of sweet spot as mentioned above or an issue with your extractor.

Also, I would not say the crankcase was dry based on the dipstick not reading any oil. The dipstick reads a range from slightly low to slightly high. This is not indicative of completely empty or completely full.

jagtoes

What I do is place the dip stick against the hose and mark the hose with some painters tape. Insert the hose until the tape is at the top of the dip stick tube. You can try to insert it more but you should be at the bottom of the pan. Vacuum extraction is the only way to get almost all of the oil out which pulling the plug won't do. As more and more cars go to e-dip sticks you will soon see the drain plug go away. I doubt if I will ever go back to pulling the plug.

BillBoost37

Have you confirmed how well you can vacuum by using say water in a 5 gallon bucket? I'd be interested in how well the pump works.

jagtoes

A few years back I ran some comparisons between vacuum extraction and drain plug method. After extraction then pulled drain plug . No oil not even a drip came out of the plug. Usually the lowest point in the pan is the area where the dip stick goes. In newer cars with e-dip sticks the lowest point is where the sensor is. If we think that ALL of the oil is out with either method it's not possible. Even if there is a teaspoon left in the pan it doesn't present itself with a problem. There is oil film on the internal parts of the engine so there will always be some oil present. The new oil and it's detergent will clean up any old oil. The cars I use it on are , Lexus , Ferrari , Jaguar , Volvo , GMC truck , Audi and MB. Also there are som youtube video's showing the comparison. With some of these cars the filters have been moved to the top of the engine and they are anti-drain type . Oil and fliter changes can be done from the top of the engine and with just a pair of gloves you can do it in a dress suit. By the way I have a lift in my garage and I don't need to use it for oil changes just for extra parking.

jagtoes

Here's a look and there are others. FYI

BillBoost37

Thank you for the info/video, it is always enjoyable to learn more.

My experience with pulling pans has been mainly American cars, typically the dipstick tube ends as it enters the block and does not continue down in like in the video. Therefore..it is simply the flat bottom of the pan and not necessarily a single lower point than the rest.

When you had mentioned that the dipstick showed nothing, I think to those same pans and how 1 quart low in my Audi's 3.0 engine showed as just under the normal operating range. Two quarts would likely be off the dipstick altogether. This says to me that since my engine takes 7 quarts when filled, if missing 2 quarts the level would likely not show on the dipstick which means there are still 5 quarts left in the oil pan/engine.

When you say E dipsticks I believe you are referring to what I would think of as a level sensor. Again, these sensors and regular dipsticks are there to let you know if the level is in an acceptable range, high or low. They don't give us a reading of "empty" so to speak.

You have changed my view of using an extractor based on how the dipstick may be at the lowest point of the pan in our engines. I would love to see a pan to confirm that it is the lowest point.

And believe me, I'm not stranger to knowing that often plugs are not draining all the oil. This engine was drained before it was pulled out. You can see the plug in the lower right. No worries about the mess in it, I found the missing piston. hahaha The hole in the side of the pan at the top is for a level sensor.

jagtoes

I bought the aftermarket dip stick for my kids A4 and before I change the oil I check it using the MMI E-measurement and then the manual dipstick. I then know the oil level and because I usually keep the oil topped (1qt in 3000 miles) I have my extractor marked with the 4.8 qts . So with the MMI and the stick reading full the extractor mark is almost to the line as the remaining oil is in the filter. Also another point my Jag 5.0L engine doesn't have a dip stick tube. There is a built in suction tube in the oil fill cap so you can't even put in a manual dip stick.

A4Driver

Well, I just returned from a 600-mile trip, and everything is OK. I was pretty paranoid along the trip that I would suddenly find my engine without oil. I almost brought four or five quarts of oil with me om case of an emergency, but I had so much luggage in the trunk and a couple of extra passengers in the car and didn't want to add any more weight.

But I checked my MMI at every opportunity I could, and I found that my oil level was always at the top of the indicator.

As i said in my original post, I have a lot of experience using an extractor and I was indeed hitting the bottom of the oil pan. Several times during the extraction process I moved the tube to make sure it was sucking up more oil than air.

I'm still stumped as to why the extractor only removed two quarts of oil, but I will perform a test like somebody suggested and will try to extract water from a filled 2-gallon pail.
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