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I'm getting really paranoid about driving the B9 now with pre-sense. I've had the car since late 2016 and it's had a few incidents of applying the brakes for no apparent reason. Initially I had it happen in the drive way a few times in the morning facing east, I thought maybe it was related to glare. Not a big deal. Now I've had two incidents of it doing so while I'm driving. Today it slammed the brakes on full force while I was going 70 around a banked turn. It could have easily caused the car to understeer into the concrete barrier. I no longer consider the car safe while pre-sense is enabled. Without real AI that can do what the human brain can do there is never going to be a safe version of any of this stuff, all it takes is bad sensor data to be misinterpreted.
Is there any coding that can be done to disable pre-sense permanently? Or a fuse related to it? There is no way I'm going to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. Otherwise I'm really considering trading the car in. Wonder if just cutting the camera at the top of the windshield would case it to error out and be disabled. Can always take the trim off and re-splice it later when selling it.
Did you talk to your dealer about it? As you wrote it could well be a just a sensor, I would have the dealer look at it before cutting wires personally.
There is a way to make it less sensitive through the MMI settings. I set mine to the more sensitive position, because it was never giving me any warnings. I have now received a few warnings, but it has never applied the brakes. I did receive one or two false warnings that I believe were due to due to glare.
Did you talk to your dealer about it? As you wrote it could well be a just a sensor, I would have the dealer look at it before cutting wires personally.
I will try that when I bring it in for 20k mile service. Earlier I scanned the car with obd11, didn't see any errors and to be honest I'm not sure how the dealer would replicate it. Even if it is a bad sensor, I wouldn't be comfortable knowing the computer is ready to slam on the brakes for me and possibly send me into a concrete wall if it experiences a glitch. It's not like a grinding wheel bearing someone's been ignoring leading to a wheel flying off the car, it's an instant thing with no warning and pretty scary when it happens at high speed while turning.
Originally Posted by cruiserchuck
There is a way to make it less sensitive through the MMI settings. I set mine to the more sensitive position, because it was never giving me any warnings. I have now received a few warnings, but it has never applied the brakes. I did receive one or two false warnings that I believe were due to due to glare.
As I understand it that is only the pre-alert sensitivity. That is the chime you hear when the car warns you before it will take any further action like braking (if capable). From what I can tell it has no impact on the sensitivity of the actual braking and in my case it was already set on the highest delay.
I understood the pre-sense settings do change the sensitivity of when the brakes apply, why else have it? Certainly mine does not react as quick when it is set to late as other have testified..
I'm getting really paranoid about driving the B9 now with pre-sense. I've had the car since late 2016 and it's had a few incidents of applying the brakes for no apparent reason. Initially I had it happen in the drive way a few times in the morning facing east, I thought maybe it was related to glare. Not a big deal. Now I've had two incidents of it doing so while I'm driving. Today it slammed the brakes on full force while I was going 70 around a banked turn. It could have easily caused the car to understeer into the concrete barrier. I no longer consider the car safe while pre-sense is enabled. Without real AI that can do what the human brain can do there is never going to be a safe version of any of this stuff, all it takes is bad sensor data to be misinterpreted.
Is there any coding that can be done to disable pre-sense permanently? Or a fuse related to it? There is no way I'm going to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. Otherwise I'm really considering trading the car in. Wonder if just cutting the camera at the top of the windshield would case it to error out and be disabled. Can always take the trim off and re-splice it later when selling it.
The system uses both radar and the camera, and it is hard to tell from your description which may be causing the problem. If you were travelling at 70kph, then the camera. If you were travelling at 70mph, then the radar. I'm guessing it was the first
I have two B9 S5 models, with the same options. In identical settings, one is more sensitive to false positives than the other.
There is clearly some variation in the calibration of the system as they come out of the factory. Or perhaps more accurately, when they are delivered to the customer. Unfortunately, I doubt the pre-delivery work includes checking pre sense calibration. It should. The camera holder on the windscreen is specifically mentioned, at least in my manual, as being subject to misalignment due to impacts or damage, which affects pre sense city performance.
I would be all over the dealer about getting the entire system properly aligned. You don't have to prove anything, it clearly is a calibration issue. I'd just put it in writing to them, stressing it is a safety issue in its current state, and needs to be corrected. Harder for them to ignore, and gives you an opening to go straight to Audi distributor / Audi if the dealer doesn't fix it.
On a tangent, I just read an article on a major German automotive site that discussed a study undertaken by the Kempten University of Applied Sciences (southern Germany) that driver assistance systems were increasing stress levels in drivers, not reducing them:
The system uses both radar and the camera, and it is hard to tell from your description which may be causing the problem. If you were travelling at 70kph, then the camera. If you were travelling at 70mph, then the radar. I'm guessing it was the first
I have two B9 S5 models, with the same options. In identical settings, one is more sensitive to false positives than the other.
There is clearly some variation in the calibration of the system as they come out of the factory. Or perhaps more accurately, when they are delivered to the customer. Unfortunately, I doubt the pre-delivery work includes checking pre sense calibration. It should. The camera holder on the windscreen is specifically mentioned, at least in my manual, as being subject to misalignment due to impacts or damage, which affects pre sense city performance.
I would be all over the dealer about getting the entire system properly aligned. You don't have to prove anything, it clearly is a calibration issue. I'd just put it in writing to them, stressing it is a safety issue in its current state, and needs to be corrected. Harder for them to ignore, and gives you an opening to go straight to Audi distributor / Audi if the dealer doesn't fix it.
On a tangent, I just read an article on a major German automotive site that discussed a study undertaken by the Kempten University of Applied Sciences (southern Germany) that driver assistance systems were increasing stress levels in drivers, not reducing them:
Source: Motor-Talk.de, translated
Interesting article (from snippet you posted) but not too surprising when you think about it. These types of features are very new for most drivers. When I first staring using the ACC, my right foot was aching due to keeping it off the brake pad, yet at the ready - "just in case."
I am beginning to use ACC more often and it does make most (though not all) driving less stressful, but not for one second do I think it is infallible, so I still pay very close attention to what's going on around me. But then again, it's a pretty hard job to be 100% attentive to everything 100% of the time - it can only take a second or two of eyes off the road to have an accident.
I have often wondered about all that technology in the bumpers and how sensitive/easily misaligned - or not - they would be if say, the car was parked and someone "tapped" your bumper. Tech is here to help us and over time, I'm certain it will go a long way in reducing a heck of a lot of accidents with other vehicles - as well as with pedestrians.
The system uses both radar and the camera, and it is hard to tell from your description which may be causing the problem. If you were travelling at 70kph, then the camera. If you were travelling at 70mph, then the radar. I'm guessing it was the first
I have two B9 S5 models, with the same options. In identical settings, one is more sensitive to false positives than the other.
There is clearly some variation in the calibration of the system as they come out of the factory. Or perhaps more accurately, when they are delivered to the customer. Unfortunately, I doubt the pre-delivery work includes checking pre sense calibration. It should. The camera holder on the windscreen is specifically mentioned, at least in my manual, as being subject to misalignment due to impacts or damage, which affects pre sense city performance.
I would be all over the dealer about getting the entire system properly aligned. You don't have to prove anything, it clearly is a calibration issue. I'd just put it in writing to them, stressing it is a safety issue in its current state, and needs to be corrected. Harder for them to ignore, and gives you an opening to go straight to Audi distributor / Audi if the dealer doesn't fix it.
On a tangent, I just read an article on a major German automotive site that discussed a study undertaken by the Kempten University of Applied Sciences (southern Germany) that driver assistance systems were increasing stress levels in drivers, not reducing them:
I was going 70mph, not kph, so as you can imagine at that speed full brakes around a banked bend is quite an uncomfortable moment.
I'll see what the dealer thinks but ultimately I agree with your article that it causes me more stress than it saves. The issue I have with a lot of these automation systems is that they're sort of pitched as AI. To me this is not AI, this is an approximation of AI. These systems aren't really thinking and making decisions based on thought + senses like a human does. These are essentially learned responses to sense data (via sensors). Humans, when they care to pay attention and not play on their phone, are actually quite capable of figuring out very complicated problems very very quickly. The brain is amazing that way! All this assistance stuff unlike the human brain is ultimately just clever computer programming. Below is an article describing reports where these systems freak out in car washes when they think the soft washing curtains are walls and end up causing actual accidents. No human or true AI would confuse a soft curtain for a hard wall, hell a healthy 3 year old child has no problem deciding if that dangling crap is a hard or soft object before they hit it.
I understood the pre-sense settings do change the sensitivity of when the brakes apply, why else have it? Certainly mine does not react as quick when it is set to late as other have testified..
Interesting, I'll check the manual later, but I'm pretty sure it's just the warning alert. Some users get annoyed by early warnings, so I think the idea is do you want to be warned or do you want the car to warn last second and just take over if you don't react. That's how I understood that setting. Mine was set to the most delayed setting and still is.
When you say "react" do you mean ding at you or hit the brakes? Because it certainly "dings" later, but my understanding is the brake application itself (corrective action) is not changed by this.
Just had my first crazy pre-sense moment today - it just went on and started braking for no good reason. My theory is that the sunlight shining straight (which is a HUGE pain for a human driver too) into the camera caused it to think there was an obstacle that wasn't there...
Interesting article (from snippet you posted) but not too surprising when you think about it. These types of features are very new for most drivers. When I first staring using the ACC, my right foot was aching due to keeping it off the brake pad, yet at the ready - "just in case."
I am beginning to use ACC more often and it does make most (though not all) driving less stressful, but not for one second do I think it is infallible, so I still pay very close attention to what's going on around me. But then again, it's a pretty hard job to be 100% attentive to everything 100% of the time - it can only take a second or two of eyes off the road to have an accident.
I have often wondered about all that technology in the bumpers and how sensitive/easily misaligned - or not - they would be if say, the car was parked and someone "tapped" your bumper. Tech is here to help us and over time, I'm certain it will go a long way in reducing a heck of a lot of accidents with other vehicles - as well as with pedestrians.
I must fall into the old school mentality they were talking about. I just don't feel comfortable having the car doing the driving, or even helping out. But I do think autonomous emergency braking is at least as significant a safety breakthrough as anti-lock brakes. Yes, sensor alignment is critical, but I think only the ultra sonic parking sensors are actually hard mounted onto the bumper itself.
03-19-2018, 01:38 PM
Permanently disable pre-sense?
