4Driver4

Good group on the Car Talk forum. Miata.net is much more tightly moderated than AW, but it works for them. Like us, they have their own set of biases, but since most folks there own Miata's as a second or third car their experiences are more varied. There are a few Audi haters and as many Audi owners.<ul><li><a href="http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=180289">Long read.</a></li></ul>

michaelgvh

My last car was a BMW and I love them. I'll knock off a couple points...
- Styling is a matter of taste. Bangle's statement that they will leave some behind is a surprisingly truthful insight in an insanely PC world. For almost every new BMW model, I cringe when it comes out and after a year or two it grows on me. I would kill for an M5 now, but when it came out I was like...blech. If you keep making the same car year after year, you will end up like ...well...GM and Ford. The key is to grab enough new blood to make up for the old blood and then some. If you only like the old styling - buy an older model or move on. Sorry.
- These arguments were common place at Roadfly.org where I still hang out with the lounge rats even though I don't own a BMW anymore. You will never end the debate because people are so passionate about the car.
- My E36 with lowered suspension is the best handling car I have ever been in. It was finally perfect when I sold it for the A6. I miss it.
- Saying that BMW doesn't HAVE to compromise doesn't mean that they don't. They choose to do so for their own reasons, not someone else's.

Potomac-Greg

I think it's the opposite. They have departed from a visual profile that for many years placed function over form, yet still yielded attractive cars. They also departed from a dedication to functional (versus frivolous) technology.

Current BMWs are still great cars, but the radical moves made in styling (and to a lesser extent in electronic gadgetry) were a move AWAY from BMW's core mission.

4Driver4

"Current BMWs are still great cars, but the radical moves made in styling (and to a lesser extent in electronic gadgetry) were a move AWAY from BMW's core mission."

michaelgvh

I'm sure you agree that "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is A) a slogan and not a mission, and B) open to anyone's interpretation of what that is.

Here is the corporate strategy statement from the BMW Group web site...

"Identifying potential and encouraging growth. Knowing what we represent. Recognising where our strengths lie and making the best use of every opportunity. Following a clear strategy. Goals we have attained are in essence the point of departure for new challenges.
This is the philosophy that inspires every individual at the BMW Group. It influences the company's structure and it plays a vital role in the decision-making process. Our corporate ethos finds its expression in the uncompromising pursuit of the superlative. The result? Outstanding brands with an unmistakable profile. Automobiles and motorcycles which fascinate people all over the world and which win legions of new admirers every day. And a degree of success which sees the BMW Group go from strength to strength.
"

This statement is much more about a company that wants to make money by maximizing opportunity than create a track car. I think they get it that people want to buy a daily driver, that also is a heck of a lot of fun and is stylish at the same time. This has resulted in BMW having their single most successful quarter ever.

"May 3, 2006

BMW Group achieves record earnings in the first quarter

Profit before tax up by 12.0% before exceptional gain+++ Pre-tax profit up by 57.7% to euro 1.296 billion+++ Earnings and sales volume outlook for full year confirmed+++

Munich. The BMW Group has started 2006 with record quarterly earnings. The number of cars sold in the first three months also represented a new high. As forecast, the BMW Group is thus heading for the best year in its corporate history: "We are well on our way to achieving our target of a group profit before tax of 4 billion euros", stated Helmut Panke, the Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG, on Wednesday in Munich. "We also expect earnings to increase in 2006 at an operating level excluding the exceptional gain from the exchangeable bond on Rolls-Royce plc shares". In volume terms, the BMW Group as previously reported aims to achieve a new sales volume record.
"

With those results, I would say that whatever they are doing, they are doing it correctly.

Potomac-Greg

... have been relatively functional.

john in cincy

to take out full page ads telling its customers that it doesn't care what they think, much less would it need to give a reason why it doesn't care (for the record, the reason (allegedly) is because of its unflinching desire to "not compromise").

OK, BMW. Do you do focus group testing? Do you ever listen to or even accept suggestions? Do you read reviews of your product? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, which I am sure it is, then that whole ad campaign is complete and utter BS (which of course it is). Because if you really don't care what your customers think, and your only goal is to create the best "objective" product (whatever that means), there really would be no point of ever asking what others think or accepting any feedback whatsoever. All you would need to do is set all of your engineers/designers down in a room and then make whatever it is they spit out. After that, any criticisms, comments, suggestions should be completely ignored because they are irrelevant and what's more come from people not as smart or as enlightened as the engineers/designers.

When you take that as an ad (which it is) and not as a mission statement for the company (which it isn't), you can see that the whole point of the ad campaign is to convince its customers (current and prospective) that they are smarter than the rest of us for buying one of the ugliest cars ever made.

By the way BMW, what does 50/50 weight distribution have to do with a body style with more creases than my grandmother's butt cheeks?

John in Cincy

michaelgvh

I didn't need that last visual...thank you very much.... 8-)