mpm

I'm sure the S6 will be loaded with all the goodies and will handle, brake, and "feel" better, but $20-30K better?

The primary purpose of this car is dog hauler, and my wifes daily transport (who isn't quite the car nut I am, but one too many rides in the S4 has made her current Passat feel dated). She'd be happy in an A6 Avant, but the 2.8 doesn't do it for me, and I'm not there with the allroad style - yet. If they put a 2.7tt in the A6, it would already be in the driveway. (AoA are you listening?)

My issue is whenever we want to do a day or weekend road trip, dogs are a must - so I want something fun to drive. The Passat has been an absolutely reliable car, but it's not in the same fit & finish league as Audi, (or the current Passat).

What do you think?

mpm
'00 S4 silver/onyx
'95 993 C4 black/cash
'02 S6 Avant laser/satin?

Bollinger

Have you seen a price on the W8 Passat. I think you are assuming a lot. Also there is no GLX W8 Passat. It has only one trim level, bonzo.

The W8 isn't really an engine choice as a different car. It even comes with bi-xenon headlights for crying out loud!

They should both be good. S6 Avant is really pricey though. If it were me, I'd buy the Passat probably. Frankly, I'd just split the difference and get the allroad. Yes, the suspension makes it heavy, but the 2.7T makes up for it.

mpm

So it would be a Passat W8 Avant? Estate? Station Wagon?

The allroad styling and two tone...'er naked plastic bumpers haven't done it for me - yet. I'm not really interested in anything to go "4 wheel'in". I just want a good wagon.

Bi-zenons on hte Passat you say? Yum...any other goodies that you might know about Steve? The hp is around 270? That oughta hawl my pups around 8^J

Have a good week...mpm

Bollinger

Should pull strong, but it won't have the torque down low and it probably won't have the super-low gearing. So it probably won't be as good 0-60.

Not such a big deal as 0-60 isn't the best measure of performance anyway.

Finman

Don't let dogs crap up an S6, get the Passat

Brian-PA

with Dr. P's strategy. Before I babble I'll answer your question. I would go with the W8 w/4motion because it is newer technology and you are getting a supposedly better designed eight. It may be detuned to provide less power to pavement but it will not be a slouch either. The s6 will be nice but let's face it, it's not going to take your breath away. So IMO, what's the point. The S4 takes your breath away in relation to the A4. The S6 will just not provide the breadth and width performance wise as one would expect. I can get more breathtaking performance experience simply riding in DLow's 2.7T.

Now, on to my babble.

In forum posts many have wondered about the blending of the brands. I would conjecture, based on your vehicle inventory, you are not one to shy away from performance vehicles or expensive vehicles.

Therefore, the fact that you are even weighing the two vehicles mentioned suggests that the brands/models are overlapping too much. Especially here in N.A.. Before anyone shoots me full of holes, I am not inferring that the W8 Passat will be the "same" as the S6. My point is that there will be enough similarities that the difference in price is not justified.

There may be more differences than similarities but there will be enough "joy" in the W8 Passat to satisfy reasonble desires of many Audi drivers. I could be wrong but from my initial impression there is going to be some confusion in the buyers' mind.

I don't buy my vehicles based on anything other than whether or not that vehicle meets my personal criteria. My criteria does not include what other people will think about me, my status, or anything else based on my choice of vehicle. Hell, I place more value in what my shoes say about me than my car.

So the quandry begins. Do I go with the upmarket VW or the Audi. In this case the the upmarket VW will be just under (few $k) the base A6 2.8Q front-trak(sic). Most would not be comparing the S6 and the VW but still it's an A6 model being compared to what was an A4 comparable model. The Passat is as A6ish as one can get especially with the W8 and 4motion.

I am still holding my theory that Audi will make some significant design and power changes to re-establish the distance between the brands. Who knows, we may soon all be driving branded VW's and liking it.

Brian

Kenny

The S6 does take your breath away since it is only coming in Avant form, compared to an A6 Avant.. If you compare the 2, there is quite a substantial difference in performance there..

True the S4 is miles away from an A4, but it's closely on par in acceleration with an A6 2.7T thus confusing buyers there.. Why not opt for the roomier A6, and add an aftermarket spring kit and updated suspension to compensate?? The price spread is not much different either..

VW / Audi may begin to have brand image problems introducing a V8 Passat wagon with 4WD, but it only gives consumers more to choose from...

I think the price of the S6 is well justified given if you compare it to other $60k sports sedans out there.. It's well in the same league as the 540i or E430..

To be honest with you, I'm getting the impression that Audi/VW doesn't care if there is too much overlap between the two makes... Regardless, as long as the consumer is drawn between whether or not to get a Passat or S6, either way VW/Audi is capturing the consumer from steering them towards another make.. It may be cannibalizing themselves in some ways, but at least you're not looking at a Mercedes or BMW...

April

I think that upon examination of the real items, the confusion will fade. Of course all of the armchair experts ( MT ) out there will muddy the waters.

The gap between the A4 and S4 as well as the A8 and S8 is considerable. I can't imagine there being any less of a contrast between the A6 and S6.

If you look at VW, they are hip and have a lot of style. The depth of their offerings are well beyond their price range. That range does not step into the Audi level of sophistication though. I've driven both brands almost every day since '96.

On their way to knocking on the MB door, VW is at the Volvo buyer level now ( at least on the more expensive Passats - S60 and S80 look like Passat with "spare tire" around the middle ) ). The customer demographic is similar. Safety, features, value, and making a statement about your own values. The human factor takes precedence over technology.

The Audi is more about absolutes. Best interior in the biz. Some of the fastest cars in the price range. Huge range of options. Sport versions in the upper ranges ( vs VW offering sport versions in the lower range ). Crush the enem.....ahem, competition in racing. Audi is about technology - Audi owners embrace it and understand it.

Unfortunatly, not enough reports out there will compare both, and point out what is bound to be a large difference.

phred

you'll be the quality control guinea pig if you buy a first-year production car with a brand-new, untested, high-tech engine.

Do ya really need that much HP to haul dogs around? In case you haven't noticed, gas is soon going to be $3/gallon, at least here in So Cal.

Brian-PA

whereas it's a given that VW wants to rule the world (like every other conglomorate) by offering multitudes of products under different brands. This ensures the purse seine type of sales net and the accompanying market share capture. Also, that Audi does tend to use some cutting edge technology in the production vehicles. (but so does virutally all of their competition)

The problem is that Audi also wants to appeal beyond the realm of enthusiast. They are definitely appealing to the "turn the key and go-all the time-everyday" customer. Audi sales are reaching a point where the buyer is not really going to care too much about the technology in the vehicle just as long as it's works "all the time-everyday."

I would venture to say that a majority of newer A8 clients bought the car for it's styling, performance, and space (not the space frame). I would also conjecture that most A8 owners don't really appreciate the ASF until it's been damaged and needs repair. Then when they find out the repair will take 12 weeks (because the $100K repair bay is booked solid), it will cost as much as a new A4, and their insurance company decided not to renew, there is a whole new appreciation for the ASF.

As far as A6 owners, most probably don't care which suspension parts are aluminum or race engineered until they hit the track or 100+mph (whichever comes first). My point is that you have more Audi going into VW than one would desire if you are basing it purely on a back end cost basis. Dash accoutrements and body panels aside, there is some serious sharing going on in the newest models. The VW's are getting different but still remarkably engineered powerplants (o.k. so it's not such a stroke of genious in the W8).

The S6 in avant form will provide breathtaking performance over a regular A6 avant. However, that comparison is only valid because Audi is intentionally forcing that comparison here. If it were the S6 sedan you are talking a very small step from the 4.2 sedan. Conversely, the A4 model does not have a sedan that was as close to the s4 in the line-up when introduced. I guess I don't see the huge difference in the A8 and S8.

Of course it's not the "what you see" it's the "what you get" that determines the difference. I just don't see how the base A6 gives you so much more under the body panels than the upcoming Passat. Unless there is some earth shattering materials composition that is not listed in the spec sheets, they are not nearly as far apart as previous years.

O.k., I'm breaking the rules by following up my own post again. Time to shut up and yield to the differing viewpoints. Sorry, I am avoiding sending my taxes. Spending a little too much time here.

Brian