Audi USA has European Delivery details
10-15-2006, 08:48 AM
#11
Depends what margins dealers are given. You can bet they won't budge much to start. The main goal
for the consumer is be sure the dealer understands the process and follows through (since this is new to both dealer and whatever team AoA has set up), rather than try to skin the last buck out of the deal. A great deal that doesn't materialize or is the wrong car, isn't going to make for great memories.
The car will come often out of dealer allocation until the European delivery department starts allocating their own cars to the dealers specifically for the program. Dealers would rather have an extra car to sell right from their own place rather than do the extra paperwork required for E.D. You also usually can't order in the first or last month of each model year, so time accordingly.
There are the usual risks of a car taking far longer than expected to show up, a damaged car showing up (yes it gets fixed, but the deal is signed and you have no negotiation power to swap cars or get a discount), potential theft or damage while in Europe, planning 3 to 4 months in advance, etc, etc. It's a wonderful concept, but folks will need to weigh the pros and cons to see if it fits their needs. It's not for everyone.
The car will come often out of dealer allocation until the European delivery department starts allocating their own cars to the dealers specifically for the program. Dealers would rather have an extra car to sell right from their own place rather than do the extra paperwork required for E.D. You also usually can't order in the first or last month of each model year, so time accordingly.
There are the usual risks of a car taking far longer than expected to show up, a damaged car showing up (yes it gets fixed, but the deal is signed and you have no negotiation power to swap cars or get a discount), potential theft or damage while in Europe, planning 3 to 4 months in advance, etc, etc. It's a wonderful concept, but folks will need to weigh the pros and cons to see if it fits their needs. It's not for everyone.
10-15-2006, 09:24 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
In NY it is where you first register the car that determines the sales tax. For example, if I
purchased a car in Suffolk County, which has a lower sales tax, but am registering the car in my home county (Nassau), I pay the higher sales tax because I am registering the car for the first time in Nassau County. In addition, when I was transferred from New Hampshire to New York and registered my car in New York thre was no sales tax because the car was previously registered in my name. So while I do nolt know the answer, I think that there must be a way of structuring the transaction so you could avoid the sales tax.
10-15-2006, 11:42 AM
#13
How long between when you first register, and then transfer, before this is valid? For example,
in California you pay sales tax on a car that you have owned out of state for less than 90 days. There must be proof that the vehicle was used out of state along with proof of registration or you will be charged full sales tax on the value.
You may want to search/lurk on BMW and Mercedes forums to see what people in your state have done.
Obviously you may encounter a dealer more willing to deal locally, but then have to pay sales tax, vs a dealer further away who may be less willing to deal, but save in sales tax. It's a lot homework to do and risks to be assessed.
Cars that do not meet CA emissions (49 state or otherwise) that have less than 7500 miles on them or are less than 2 years old can pretty much not be imported at all. Of course that doesn't apply in this case.
You may want to search/lurk on BMW and Mercedes forums to see what people in your state have done.
Obviously you may encounter a dealer more willing to deal locally, but then have to pay sales tax, vs a dealer further away who may be less willing to deal, but save in sales tax. It's a lot homework to do and risks to be assessed.
Cars that do not meet CA emissions (49 state or otherwise) that have less than 7500 miles on them or are less than 2 years old can pretty much not be imported at all. Of course that doesn't apply in this case.
10-15-2006, 12:14 PM
#14
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Not Ready for Prime Time: Re: Audi USA has European Delivery details
Not only is the ED experience "not for everyone," like April said, but from reading through the details, the program isn't really for _anyone_.
From the FAQ on the Audi ED pages:
>Do vehicle purchases and leases qualify?
>
>The Audi European Delivery Program offer applies >toward vehicle purchases (cash sales) only.
So definitely no leased cars, but potentially no financed cars either. Meaning total ED sales for Audi will be in the mid-double digits for the foreseeable future. Sounds like Audi Financial (or _someone_) doesn't want to play ball on this one.
There's another German manufacturer over in Munich that goes so far as to make your second lease payment for you on mfr-leased cars, so that you're not making a payment while the car's in transit.
The "Sequence of Events" customer checklist document also has some verrrrry scary language that isn't repeated elsewhere in the ED pages:
"5. Ater your Audi has been manufactured, your Audi dealer will contact you and **request payment in full** and review all necessary paperwork with you at that time including **reimbursable Value Added Tax (VAT) that is equal to 19% of the selling price**
...
14. After you drop off your vehicle at an authorized drop off location, your Dealer will contact you to make arrangements to reimburse 19% Value Added Tax (VAT) that you provided to your Dealer when the order was signed. (Must be within 90-Days of delivery date)"
Um, oh HELL no. Seriously.
Audi immediately goes to the top of the list as the single worst European Delivery program in existence, after Porsche's $4,000 fee in addition to MSRP. That takes some serious *****, and should kill Audi's ED plans before they even begin.
ED programs have been around for decades; does Audi not see that it needs to compete directly with BMW and Mercedes on this? Haven't laid the groundwork for Audi on this?
Seems like someone at VW-Audi has decided to completely sabotage the program from the start, or to effectively only deliver to RS4/S6/S8 cash buyers who would otherwise never get a discount out of a dealer's allocation. Maybe the dealers themselves threatened mutiny over making the S models more available and for potentially undercutting their prices.
Otherwise, for a meager 5% discount off MSRP, an ED buyer has to 1.) pay in cash, since they definitely can't lease and likely can't finance via AFS (who would be the only potential financer, as almost no bank will consider loaning money for car that's not in the country and without a VIN for 90 days from time of the loan,) and 2.) put down a 19% deposit (!) from time of manufacture until they return to the US after delivery.
On an "average" Audi of about $50,000, that's a $9,500 deposit that Audi gets to keep and earn interest off of for at least 60 days, more like 90.
Is it me or does this just not add up at all? I suppose it's one thing to put out a press release that says your company's doing European Delivery for Americans, and another thing entirely to actually sell the cars.
It's really too bad, since how this works with BMWs actually benefits all parties.
The customers who do this (who are willing to wait and who know exactly the car they want) get a nice break on otherwise ridiculous prices, the dealers make a tidy $1,000 to $1,500 for doing a small amount of additional paperwork over a traditional sale without burning an allocation, and the manufacturer gets all kinds of demographic info on a customer that'll stay very loyal for a long time and can give back all kinds of feedback in focus groups, etc.
Audi can't seem to see the forest for the trees. Too bad for them.
From the FAQ on the Audi ED pages:
>Do vehicle purchases and leases qualify?
>
>The Audi European Delivery Program offer applies >toward vehicle purchases (cash sales) only.
So definitely no leased cars, but potentially no financed cars either. Meaning total ED sales for Audi will be in the mid-double digits for the foreseeable future. Sounds like Audi Financial (or _someone_) doesn't want to play ball on this one.
There's another German manufacturer over in Munich that goes so far as to make your second lease payment for you on mfr-leased cars, so that you're not making a payment while the car's in transit.
The "Sequence of Events" customer checklist document also has some verrrrry scary language that isn't repeated elsewhere in the ED pages:
"5. Ater your Audi has been manufactured, your Audi dealer will contact you and **request payment in full** and review all necessary paperwork with you at that time including **reimbursable Value Added Tax (VAT) that is equal to 19% of the selling price**
...
14. After you drop off your vehicle at an authorized drop off location, your Dealer will contact you to make arrangements to reimburse 19% Value Added Tax (VAT) that you provided to your Dealer when the order was signed. (Must be within 90-Days of delivery date)"
Um, oh HELL no. Seriously.
Audi immediately goes to the top of the list as the single worst European Delivery program in existence, after Porsche's $4,000 fee in addition to MSRP. That takes some serious *****, and should kill Audi's ED plans before they even begin.
ED programs have been around for decades; does Audi not see that it needs to compete directly with BMW and Mercedes on this? Haven't laid the groundwork for Audi on this?
Seems like someone at VW-Audi has decided to completely sabotage the program from the start, or to effectively only deliver to RS4/S6/S8 cash buyers who would otherwise never get a discount out of a dealer's allocation. Maybe the dealers themselves threatened mutiny over making the S models more available and for potentially undercutting their prices.
Otherwise, for a meager 5% discount off MSRP, an ED buyer has to 1.) pay in cash, since they definitely can't lease and likely can't finance via AFS (who would be the only potential financer, as almost no bank will consider loaning money for car that's not in the country and without a VIN for 90 days from time of the loan,) and 2.) put down a 19% deposit (!) from time of manufacture until they return to the US after delivery.
On an "average" Audi of about $50,000, that's a $9,500 deposit that Audi gets to keep and earn interest off of for at least 60 days, more like 90.
Is it me or does this just not add up at all? I suppose it's one thing to put out a press release that says your company's doing European Delivery for Americans, and another thing entirely to actually sell the cars.
It's really too bad, since how this works with BMWs actually benefits all parties.
The customers who do this (who are willing to wait and who know exactly the car they want) get a nice break on otherwise ridiculous prices, the dealers make a tidy $1,000 to $1,500 for doing a small amount of additional paperwork over a traditional sale without burning an allocation, and the manufacturer gets all kinds of demographic info on a customer that'll stay very loyal for a long time and can give back all kinds of feedback in focus groups, etc.
Audi can't seem to see the forest for the trees. Too bad for them.
10-15-2006, 02:24 PM
#15
I think it's not all spelled out correctly yet, and they have some editing to do. it's probably
fairly close in the end (except for Saab and Volvo who subvent like crazy).
A cash sale may mean that the deal has to be funded and finalized by some kind of bank with the cheque for the amount signed over to the dealer. People buy all kinds of rare or unusual cars with such loans from companies that specialize in this - and the rates are often competitive if not subvented. There are banks who will fund a deal with a vin# and order confirmation, and that is provided at the time the car is built. If you read the BMW forums, full payment is due about 30 days before the actual delivery of the car to the customer in Europe.
Best I can tell from reading the BMW forums, they do not make your payments on a lease while the car is in transit. Maybe this has changed or maybe you mean Mercedes?
Doesn't BMW and Mercedes collect VAT? Porsche certainly does. This sounds like a government requirement, not a manufacturer requirement. Just like buying a car in California and using it to drive around for a few weeks before driving it out of state, you must pay CA sales tax, then apply for a refund when you return home. No surprise. It used to be easy to get a trip permit to avoid paying registration, but I hear this has been tightened as well. Besides, some people may be tempted to sell the car in Europe since US prices are so much lower than they are there.
People are able to find additional discounts on some models from the dealers as they become familiar with the process. On hot models like the 4.2, that may be much harder to find. If you're serious about saving money, you'll pick up the car and drop it off at the shipping facility the next day, minimizing your hotel and meal expenses. But that's hardly the point is it? It's about the experience. My understanding is that BMW owners average about $4K off the overal price of the car - with smaller discounts for hot cars, and larger ones for the less popular.
The cars already cost less than the equivelent BMW or Mercedes with the same equipment, and then because the ED program isn't the cheapest around people find another excuse? Sheesh!
You're still paying less and you get a chance to drive your very own car on the Autobahn if you like.
People were kvetching for years that Audi's ED service had vanished. Now that they offer it, people complain that it isn't cheap enough. Some people are never happy;-)
A cash sale may mean that the deal has to be funded and finalized by some kind of bank with the cheque for the amount signed over to the dealer. People buy all kinds of rare or unusual cars with such loans from companies that specialize in this - and the rates are often competitive if not subvented. There are banks who will fund a deal with a vin# and order confirmation, and that is provided at the time the car is built. If you read the BMW forums, full payment is due about 30 days before the actual delivery of the car to the customer in Europe.
Best I can tell from reading the BMW forums, they do not make your payments on a lease while the car is in transit. Maybe this has changed or maybe you mean Mercedes?
Doesn't BMW and Mercedes collect VAT? Porsche certainly does. This sounds like a government requirement, not a manufacturer requirement. Just like buying a car in California and using it to drive around for a few weeks before driving it out of state, you must pay CA sales tax, then apply for a refund when you return home. No surprise. It used to be easy to get a trip permit to avoid paying registration, but I hear this has been tightened as well. Besides, some people may be tempted to sell the car in Europe since US prices are so much lower than they are there.
People are able to find additional discounts on some models from the dealers as they become familiar with the process. On hot models like the 4.2, that may be much harder to find. If you're serious about saving money, you'll pick up the car and drop it off at the shipping facility the next day, minimizing your hotel and meal expenses. But that's hardly the point is it? It's about the experience. My understanding is that BMW owners average about $4K off the overal price of the car - with smaller discounts for hot cars, and larger ones for the less popular.
The cars already cost less than the equivelent BMW or Mercedes with the same equipment, and then because the ED program isn't the cheapest around people find another excuse? Sheesh!
You're still paying less and you get a chance to drive your very own car on the Autobahn if you like.People were kvetching for years that Audi's ED service had vanished. Now that they offer it, people complain that it isn't cheap enough. Some people are never happy;-)
10-15-2006, 05:37 PM
#16
April, when a deal sucks it sucks.
Just because Audi offers it does not make it a good program. From my brief review of the details I must agree with the others on this.
If they want my business they will have to do better.
By the way, when I mentioned to my wife that Audi now offered OD she got quite excited. I think she is already planning her European holiday. Too bad I'll not participate at this time.
If they want my business they will have to do better.
By the way, when I mentioned to my wife that Audi now offered OD she got quite excited. I think she is already planning her European holiday. Too bad I'll not participate at this time.
10-15-2006, 05:42 PM
#17
What I am saying is that we're going over this with a fine tooth comb, and it appears
that upon a quick scan, all the ED offerings have similar or other loopsholes that could present serious downsides for certain customers.
To an Audi enthusiast who is planning to buy another Audi and a trip to Europe, this will meet their needs.
For the bargain hunter who wants to visit Europe and needs a new car, it is not.
To an Audi enthusiast who is planning to buy another Audi and a trip to Europe, this will meet their needs.
For the bargain hunter who wants to visit Europe and needs a new car, it is not.
10-15-2006, 08:44 PM
#19
Cat Herder
BMW VAT details from their ED site...wear protection before clicking
Quote: "You may keep your car in Europe up to 6 months after delivery (there is a 16% penalty tax if your car is not exported within the 6-month period). Cars financed or leased through BMW Financial Services must be exported within 90 days."
Or is this a different thing?<ul><li><a href="http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/europeandelivery/">I feel dirty, but I'll click anyway...</a></li></ul>
Or is this a different thing?<ul><li><a href="http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/europeandelivery/">I feel dirty, but I'll click anyway...</a></li></ul>
10-15-2006, 09:31 PM
#20
Implies that once the car has been in Europe for more than 6 months, you don't get that tax back.
No mention of VAT being levied to begin with.
"You may keep your car in Europe up to 6 months after delivery (there is a 16% penalty tax if your car is not exported within the 6-month period). Cars financed or leased through BMW Financial Services must be exported within 90 days."
"You may keep your car in Europe up to 6 months after delivery (there is a 16% penalty tax if your car is not exported within the 6-month period). Cars financed or leased through BMW Financial Services must be exported within 90 days."