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Interpreting tiptronic adaptation values - what is your gearbox telling you?
I’ve recently been reading up on the tiptronic transmission ZF 6HP19A (KHA gearbox code) fitted to my car and found some useful resources I wanted to share with others. One of the most interesting topics which came up is the way in which our transmissions continue to adapt the clutch pressures to achieve smooth gear shifting, and the fact these adaptation values are stored in the ECU and can be read with vcds. The lightbulb moment was realising that these numbers can actually indicate specific faults and allow you to catch issues before they become problems.
The video below and Audi SSP 385 have been important in helping me understand just what these numbers mean. I would urge anyone who is interested in understanding better the health of their tiptronic box to watch the video at least, and if you want to understand more fully, then read pages 60 onwards in the Audi SSP385 pdf. It would also be useful for everyone if you can reply to the thread with a snapshot of your gearbox adaptation values as it might help us learn more about what represent typical values. As Mickey Figueroa says in the video, tracking these numbers over time will help you to spot changes and to understand early if seals or solenoids are beginning to fail.
Transmission adaptation numbers can be read with vcds from 02 Transmission- channels 73 to 77. 73 is clutch A, 74 is clutch B, 75 is clutch C, 76 is clutch D and of course 77 is clutch E.
Each channel has four values. The first is the clutch fill pressure in mbar, next is the number of clutch pressure adaptation cycles performed, then the quick charge time in ms and finally the number of QCT adaptations performed. Read the audi SSP 385 pages 60 to 71 to understand the adaptation process and what these terms mean.
I’m adding to this post my current adaptation values, the fill pressures are all negative numbers and I’d be interested in better understanding the significance of these. According to Mickey in the video, worn seals usually present themselves as high positive numbers. The typical range of adaptation values is shown in the attached table taken from page 62 of SSP 385 and also quoted by Mickey in the helpful video below.
Let’s make this thread a reference for members’ adaptation values and see if we can help a few folks preserve their gearboxes in future!
Mickey Figueroa video on monitoring adaptation values:
Thanks H, I think it’s interesting too, and hopefully a few more folks will note their adaptations and post them. Watching how these change over time could give a clue as to the health of the transmission.
Thanks @metalhead_79 - is yours a quattro car, so 6HP19A? Interesting you also have one of your clutch pressure adaptations at zero, but C clutch in your case rather than the D clutch which was zero on mine. Also you have exactly 255 adaptations on your D clutch, just as I do. I wonder if the memory blocks for these adaptations is only 8 bits and can only store up to 255 values? Does that mean that once at 255 the gearbox stops re-learning that clutch’s behaviour, or more likely the adaptations continue but the value recorded remains at 255.
Your quick charge times are noticeably higher than mine. According to SSP385 page 56 that’s the time high pressure ATF is applied to the shift devices to get them into the position for a gear change. I wonder what we can infer about the gearbox condition from higher or lower numbers in this context?
Still much for me to get my head around on this topic but I find it fascinating and appreciate your input metalhead.
Yes, quattro with the 6HP19A.
Got the car last summer from Sweden. Was really hard to get it mapped as the ecu is so rare, but in Mars I finally got it done.
Has had a bit of a rough gear change from 2:e to 3:e. Did a throttlebody adaption a few weeks ago and that improved the gear changes. Now switches much smoother
Sverige, I am unable to perform the readings with my XTool.
When I enter 02 - Transmission, 08 - Data block measurement and I try to read channels 73 to 77, the scanner says the feature is not supported. Am I doing something wrong? If not, I'd need VCDS to be able to do this.
Hey Keli - do you know what software version your transmission TCU has? It may be that your TCU is running the original software and hasn’t been updated to the more recent software (0020?) which supports the dynamic adaptation process. I had not realised it when posting this thread, but possibly the original gearbox software from 2005 MY cars does not make use of these memory blocks.
If your car does have the updated software then possibly you’ve discovered a limitation of the Xtool, but this seems unlikely to me as the reader tool surely just sends a query and then displays the response from the car.
Ps. If that is the case, it will be Lifeguard 6 fluid rather than 6+ or 8 which is required if you ever do an ATF change, as I believe the software update introduced the ability of the gearbox to adapt to the changing friction characteristics of the newer fluids as they age.
ok...took my vcds to garage today..nope..can't either read those measuring blocks.... ..i'm on 0020 sw version..
did you enter any security access code before?
what sw did you have in your gearbox?
cheers!/H
06-10-2019, 04:15 AM
Interpreting tiptronic adaptation values - what is your gearbox telling you?
