I just bought a new Eibach Spring Pro Kit for my A8. $279 Shipped! And I would like some input.
03-01-2004, 05:58 PM
#21
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Bilstein will also do custom valving for you out of their San Diego facility.
A freind with a very nicely prepared UrS4 did this - had the fronts stiffened to reduce lift throttle/braking oversteer (he spun it a couple of times). That car had Hoppen equipment all the way through. In the end, it was the _perfect_ suspension, IMO.
Anyway, before you throw out the Bilsteins, consider having them revalved - at least call Bilstein in San Diego (Rancho Bernardo, IIRC).
Anyway, before you throw out the Bilsteins, consider having them revalved - at least call Bilstein in San Diego (Rancho Bernardo, IIRC).
03-01-2004, 07:35 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
Hmmmmm, Interesting......After reading through all this I think......
I might try to put the Eibach Springs up front with the OEM shocks and leave the rear end alone(Stock), and see how it works.
My goal after all, was just to lower the front end while keeping the comfy ride.
More imput Wanted!!
My goal after all, was just to lower the front end while keeping the comfy ride.
More imput Wanted!!
03-01-2004, 07:51 PM
#23
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Keep in mind, springs contribute more to the sense of 'harshness' than shocks. Many people don't
realize this. Shocks control the motion of hte springs.
What you really want is a progressive rate spring, which I assume you got (most Eibachs are progressive, it seems) and the appropriate shock.
Now, appropriate to which part of the 'progressive' part of the spring? IMO, Bilstein sport is the appropriate match, but I like a very firm - but not jarring - ride. I.E. I want firmly controlled rebound (shocks/dampers) and sufficient allowance for pavement irregularities.
The Eibach progressive rate springs in conjunction with the Bilstein sports shouls accomplish that quite well.
However, if you use OEM shocks, a couple of things may result: 1. they may lack ability to control the 'stiffer' part of the progressive springs, so larger dips and bumps will result in excessive 'bounciness' or essentially incomplete rebound control and 2. the OEM shocks will wear faster, and wear out too quickly because they are frequently operating beyond their design parameters.
I'm not a fan of Koni, but some people are, and there are vendors that sell 'externally' adjustable shocks (meaning you don't have to remove the shock to change the setting), which may be the ticket for you. On the softest setting, they are downright 'floaty' IMO, and in the firm setting they border on too hard.
Something more to consider, in any event. Others here, like Randy, have forgotten more about suspension tuning than I will probably ever know, so hopefully you'll get their input as well.
The info I've given you comes from experience, though, as well as armchair mechanic 'theory'. ;-)
Have fun!!!
What you really want is a progressive rate spring, which I assume you got (most Eibachs are progressive, it seems) and the appropriate shock.
Now, appropriate to which part of the 'progressive' part of the spring? IMO, Bilstein sport is the appropriate match, but I like a very firm - but not jarring - ride. I.E. I want firmly controlled rebound (shocks/dampers) and sufficient allowance for pavement irregularities.
The Eibach progressive rate springs in conjunction with the Bilstein sports shouls accomplish that quite well.
However, if you use OEM shocks, a couple of things may result: 1. they may lack ability to control the 'stiffer' part of the progressive springs, so larger dips and bumps will result in excessive 'bounciness' or essentially incomplete rebound control and 2. the OEM shocks will wear faster, and wear out too quickly because they are frequently operating beyond their design parameters.
I'm not a fan of Koni, but some people are, and there are vendors that sell 'externally' adjustable shocks (meaning you don't have to remove the shock to change the setting), which may be the ticket for you. On the softest setting, they are downright 'floaty' IMO, and in the firm setting they border on too hard.
Something more to consider, in any event. Others here, like Randy, have forgotten more about suspension tuning than I will probably ever know, so hopefully you'll get their input as well.
The info I've given you comes from experience, though, as well as armchair mechanic 'theory'. ;-)
Have fun!!!
03-01-2004, 08:24 PM
#24
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Heisan Bernes thanks for you response, how is Norway? Cold? I'm wondering if part of the reason.....
for your "stiff" ride is that you do not have the same stock suspension in Norway
as we have here in the USA!
Also, since you have the 2.8L V6, your A8 should be a little lighter to begin with.
This could contribute to the reason that the A8 feels extra "stiff" with the upgrade.
It's just a thought.
Follow picture below to help see what suspension you have.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/sticker.jpg">
Explanation of weight codes (PR numbers)
The suspension version installed in the vehicle is indicated by the factory code on the vehicle data sticker.
In this example the vehicle is equipped with standard suspension, version 1BA -arrow-.
-A- is the weight code for the front suspension.
-B- is the weight code for the rear suspension.
The vehicle data sticker is located at the rear in the spare tire well.
1BA = Standard suspension
1BM = Standard suspension Europe
1BD =Sport suspension Audi S8
1BE = Sports suspension
1BT = Off road suspension (approx. 7 mm raised position)
1BN = Suspension with level control system Europe
1BG = Suspension with level control system
Bernes
Er Det kaldt hos dere om dagen?
Did you go to the annual Winter Meet in Sigdal that KjellA was talking about??
as we have here in the USA!
Also, since you have the 2.8L V6, your A8 should be a little lighter to begin with.
This could contribute to the reason that the A8 feels extra "stiff" with the upgrade.
It's just a thought.
Follow picture below to help see what suspension you have.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/sticker.jpg">
Explanation of weight codes (PR numbers)
The suspension version installed in the vehicle is indicated by the factory code on the vehicle data sticker.
In this example the vehicle is equipped with standard suspension, version 1BA -arrow-.
-A- is the weight code for the front suspension.
-B- is the weight code for the rear suspension.
The vehicle data sticker is located at the rear in the spare tire well.
1BA = Standard suspension
1BM = Standard suspension Europe
1BD =Sport suspension Audi S8
1BE = Sports suspension
1BT = Off road suspension (approx. 7 mm raised position)
1BN = Suspension with level control system Europe
1BG = Suspension with level control system
Bernes
Er Det kaldt hos dere om dagen?
Did you go to the annual Winter Meet in Sigdal that KjellA was talking about??
03-01-2004, 08:59 PM
#26
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Get used to hearing things like "heeeey muchacho"
b/c you will have all the appearance of a lift kit in the rear, a la some Monte Carlo from the 80's.
You should definitely use the same setup front and rear. The whole car will feel a mess if you put different rate springs and shocks front and rear.
The front will feel tied down nice and snug and the rear will be floaty and bouncy by comparison.
The biggest thing you can do to avoid harshness, aside from spring selection, is to make sure ALL the bushings are in good shape. Replace as many busings as you can afford to, and the harshness will diminsh while the sense of control will increase.
I don't know all the bushings, but: Strut tower bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings, etc - All the way down to motor mounts, transmission mounts and exhaust hangers - all these parts are very critical to NVH and all of them contribute to the sense of environmental harshness.
If there's anyone near you who has this setup, see if you can take a ride. If you are going to install the eibachs, consider the Koni's if you're really concerned.
Personally I'd do as many bushings as possible, throw on the Eibachs and Bilstein Sports front and rear, and be loving it.
Also note that some adjust ment of tire pressure also contributes to harshness, as well as of course tire selection.
A set of Contiextreme Contacts might be a good tire choice for you when this is all done - they are relatively soft riding and very quiet. In conjunction with some new bushings/rod ends, it would be hard to imagine the result, with 17" wheels, being 'harsh'. I'd bet it would be just what you're looking for.
You should definitely use the same setup front and rear. The whole car will feel a mess if you put different rate springs and shocks front and rear.
The front will feel tied down nice and snug and the rear will be floaty and bouncy by comparison.
The biggest thing you can do to avoid harshness, aside from spring selection, is to make sure ALL the bushings are in good shape. Replace as many busings as you can afford to, and the harshness will diminsh while the sense of control will increase.
I don't know all the bushings, but: Strut tower bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings, etc - All the way down to motor mounts, transmission mounts and exhaust hangers - all these parts are very critical to NVH and all of them contribute to the sense of environmental harshness.
If there's anyone near you who has this setup, see if you can take a ride. If you are going to install the eibachs, consider the Koni's if you're really concerned.
Personally I'd do as many bushings as possible, throw on the Eibachs and Bilstein Sports front and rear, and be loving it.
Also note that some adjust ment of tire pressure also contributes to harshness, as well as of course tire selection.
A set of Contiextreme Contacts might be a good tire choice for you when this is all done - they are relatively soft riding and very quiet. In conjunction with some new bushings/rod ends, it would be hard to imagine the result, with 17" wheels, being 'harsh'. I'd bet it would be just what you're looking for.
03-01-2004, 09:26 PM
#28
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Again for your looong input, here is why I thought I would only do the front.
The Car is parked at a slight incline.
Front Gap
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_001.jpg">
About 4 inches
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_006.jpg">
Rear Gap
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_004.jpg">
"Only" about 2 1/2 inches
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_007.jpg">
Front Gap
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_001.jpg">
About 4 inches
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_006.jpg">
Rear Gap
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_004.jpg">
"Only" about 2 1/2 inches
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/a8gap_007.jpg">
03-01-2004, 10:17 PM
#30
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quite normal. It's the horizontal lines of the car (rocker panel, window trim, etc)
that would really look 'raked'.
Most all cars have more front clearance for the simple reason the wheels up there have to be able to turn and compress at the same time.
So fender gap is not the only measure...
Most all cars have more front clearance for the simple reason the wheels up there have to be able to turn and compress at the same time.
So fender gap is not the only measure...