A lot more information regarding the new A8
09-09-2002, 08:15 AM
#11
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A huge step in the right direction, this is what flagship is all about
I must say this is a huge step forward for Audi concerning the A8, which I consider a work in progress. The editorial on the A8 has shown Audi is stepping up to the plate, it's not quite there but it's definitely moving in the right direction to make the A8 a car more befitting of it's class. Wait, before, you tune out ... just listen and soak in the words. Don't consider this a negative post as this is not my intent, but a post from one fellow Audi enthusiasts to the next concerning how Audi can take it to the next level.
Let me reiterate, I'm really excited about the changes made to the A8, and it has certainly made the A8 a more competitive car in it's class. However, every feature mentioned in the article is available on the MB S, CL, SL class cars, and have been for atleast the last 4 years, and many can be had on MB's other models as well as other flagships from other car manufacturers. From the Air Suspension system to the self closing and opening trunk lid to the proximity sensor key system. No, I don't want to buy a S, CL, SL or any other MB car. However, perhaps, other fellow Audi enthusiasts may understand why I have been so adamant that the old A8 just wasn't cutting it, and the new A8 may not be. These technologies although new to Audi's flagship have been used in other flagship models from other manufacturers for several years. With incorporation of these features Audi has made the A8 certainly more exciting and befitting of it's class, and without said features the Audi A8 in my mind was far behind the curve, it was several years behind others.
Now, why you may ask do I consider the A8 not quite there yet, until I see the full feature list I really can't say but going on what I know of the car, although, I would finally put it at as front runner in it's class it's still not the cutting edge leader for it's class. For example the rear deck lid electronically opens and closes, good good ... but on the MB S, SL, CL not only does the rear deck lid electronically open and close but all 4 or 2 doors also electronically close, to ensure the occupants are sealed in a sound proof and safe and secure environment, I know, Lexus LS430 and GS400 (might) also have this feature. So these car manufacturers have taken that extra step that next level. Another case, consider the A8's braking system good, but MB has moved to the next level and developed electronically controlled braking, no more pneumatics, or mechanically link between the brake pedal and the brakes, it's all electronic although they have a fail back system in case the electronic braking system fails. Also, the key system, not only is the S, CL, SL had this feature for years, in fact, MB has moved to not laser cut keys, but keys that are lasers ... how innovative is that, an electronic laser/radio key on top of the proximity feature. The point, the A8, with all it's no features have moved to where it should have been, if it wanted to compete. Now, let's go to the next level, let's start being the guy who people follow. Let's make Audi A8 indicative of what Audi means to me.
Consider, the keying system, I choose it because it's a simple example, and I know Audi has worked on this feature. Let's move to the next level, by offering, the thumb scanning security system, u simply start the car with a thumb print, ... I know the Avantissimo concept had this feature what kept Audi from putting it into the new A8. I could go on, and some might argue, that what Audi understands is that weight is a serious issue, and the more luxury you add to a car, motors, ... etc ... cost weight. Hold on, that's why they now have employed ASF, why doesn't Audi take advantage of this huge weight savings. Using aluminum is not there just to say I use Aluminum, how about we make use of this fact, to pack more features into the car. So you argue Audi is about performance and weight hurts performance.
Well, I'd say, Audi was doing quite well for it's self in this department, but they let the field catch up, only, BMW was ahead, now consider a 6.3 0-60 time for the 4.2 litre 335HP A8. Well, well, ... v8 S500 comes in at 6.0 secs, the S600 with it's twin-turbo V12 and 500HP comes in at 4.6 secs, these are two cars that in theory are heavier than the A8 and both pack in more luxury. In all fairness, the S600 would have to be compared to atleast a W12 A8, but nothing is known of this car yet. Perhaps, the fabled, 500HP V10 Audi/Lambo are producing will find it's way into the A8. Mind you, the S600 is MB's flagship, and it's not even the sport model. That would be the AMG S55 with that said the S8 will have to be a beast as it will probably be competing against a car, the S55, that will have 4.2 sec 0-60's. Performance wise Audi is going to have to get back to being innovative the front-runner, it's our staple, Quattro is not enough of selling point, any longer considering top brands are now offering dare I use this term 4-wheel drive in their flagship sedans.
Ok, enough, all in all the new A8, is a huge step in the right direction. I still think the exterior is not striking enough, and when I mean striking I don't want gaudy, but unique distinctive. Consider the Avantissimo's headlights this little feature would have made an A8 unmistakable coming down the road. The S class, is not gaudy, but those head lights give it a very unique image ... it gives the grill at cat like appearance. And this is something I think the A8 misses, I love stealthiness, I love that about the S4, but being stealthy does not mean being unassuming, the S4 regardless of whether u know who makes it or not, still makes u do a double take, when u see it coming down the road.
I must commend Audi for bringing the A8 into the fold, but now let's take it to the next level, let's be the front-runner. Let's be the guy who puts Sirius/XM removable radio receiver's into their car ahead of the pact, etc ... it's these little things that define the term luxury, many MB's have xenon reading lights with in the car, although many might find these features, nor necessary, extravagant, un-needed but that is the epitomy of what this class is all about, luxury- aka having **** you don't need.
Many might consider the new A8's feature's, "icing on the cake", but I think this is what the A8 should have been and needs to be all about. Exciting and innovative, it's now exciting, innovative no, let's move to the next realm and start being the innovator. The A8 is now certainly a far more interesting car, and truly claim to be Audi's flagship.
And I don't only want to talk about I've got a million and one idea's to give idea a heads, such as a braking system that neither requires no brake pads, never wears, and never produces dust. I know their engineers have to be thinking about these things, let's start being the guy that makes these things happen. The A8 should and I believe will embody all that Audi stands.
Let me reiterate, I'm really excited about the changes made to the A8, and it has certainly made the A8 a more competitive car in it's class. However, every feature mentioned in the article is available on the MB S, CL, SL class cars, and have been for atleast the last 4 years, and many can be had on MB's other models as well as other flagships from other car manufacturers. From the Air Suspension system to the self closing and opening trunk lid to the proximity sensor key system. No, I don't want to buy a S, CL, SL or any other MB car. However, perhaps, other fellow Audi enthusiasts may understand why I have been so adamant that the old A8 just wasn't cutting it, and the new A8 may not be. These technologies although new to Audi's flagship have been used in other flagship models from other manufacturers for several years. With incorporation of these features Audi has made the A8 certainly more exciting and befitting of it's class, and without said features the Audi A8 in my mind was far behind the curve, it was several years behind others.
Now, why you may ask do I consider the A8 not quite there yet, until I see the full feature list I really can't say but going on what I know of the car, although, I would finally put it at as front runner in it's class it's still not the cutting edge leader for it's class. For example the rear deck lid electronically opens and closes, good good ... but on the MB S, SL, CL not only does the rear deck lid electronically open and close but all 4 or 2 doors also electronically close, to ensure the occupants are sealed in a sound proof and safe and secure environment, I know, Lexus LS430 and GS400 (might) also have this feature. So these car manufacturers have taken that extra step that next level. Another case, consider the A8's braking system good, but MB has moved to the next level and developed electronically controlled braking, no more pneumatics, or mechanically link between the brake pedal and the brakes, it's all electronic although they have a fail back system in case the electronic braking system fails. Also, the key system, not only is the S, CL, SL had this feature for years, in fact, MB has moved to not laser cut keys, but keys that are lasers ... how innovative is that, an electronic laser/radio key on top of the proximity feature. The point, the A8, with all it's no features have moved to where it should have been, if it wanted to compete. Now, let's go to the next level, let's start being the guy who people follow. Let's make Audi A8 indicative of what Audi means to me.
Consider, the keying system, I choose it because it's a simple example, and I know Audi has worked on this feature. Let's move to the next level, by offering, the thumb scanning security system, u simply start the car with a thumb print, ... I know the Avantissimo concept had this feature what kept Audi from putting it into the new A8. I could go on, and some might argue, that what Audi understands is that weight is a serious issue, and the more luxury you add to a car, motors, ... etc ... cost weight. Hold on, that's why they now have employed ASF, why doesn't Audi take advantage of this huge weight savings. Using aluminum is not there just to say I use Aluminum, how about we make use of this fact, to pack more features into the car. So you argue Audi is about performance and weight hurts performance.
Well, I'd say, Audi was doing quite well for it's self in this department, but they let the field catch up, only, BMW was ahead, now consider a 6.3 0-60 time for the 4.2 litre 335HP A8. Well, well, ... v8 S500 comes in at 6.0 secs, the S600 with it's twin-turbo V12 and 500HP comes in at 4.6 secs, these are two cars that in theory are heavier than the A8 and both pack in more luxury. In all fairness, the S600 would have to be compared to atleast a W12 A8, but nothing is known of this car yet. Perhaps, the fabled, 500HP V10 Audi/Lambo are producing will find it's way into the A8. Mind you, the S600 is MB's flagship, and it's not even the sport model. That would be the AMG S55 with that said the S8 will have to be a beast as it will probably be competing against a car, the S55, that will have 4.2 sec 0-60's. Performance wise Audi is going to have to get back to being innovative the front-runner, it's our staple, Quattro is not enough of selling point, any longer considering top brands are now offering dare I use this term 4-wheel drive in their flagship sedans.
Ok, enough, all in all the new A8, is a huge step in the right direction. I still think the exterior is not striking enough, and when I mean striking I don't want gaudy, but unique distinctive. Consider the Avantissimo's headlights this little feature would have made an A8 unmistakable coming down the road. The S class, is not gaudy, but those head lights give it a very unique image ... it gives the grill at cat like appearance. And this is something I think the A8 misses, I love stealthiness, I love that about the S4, but being stealthy does not mean being unassuming, the S4 regardless of whether u know who makes it or not, still makes u do a double take, when u see it coming down the road.
I must commend Audi for bringing the A8 into the fold, but now let's take it to the next level, let's be the front-runner. Let's be the guy who puts Sirius/XM removable radio receiver's into their car ahead of the pact, etc ... it's these little things that define the term luxury, many MB's have xenon reading lights with in the car, although many might find these features, nor necessary, extravagant, un-needed but that is the epitomy of what this class is all about, luxury- aka having **** you don't need.
Many might consider the new A8's feature's, "icing on the cake", but I think this is what the A8 should have been and needs to be all about. Exciting and innovative, it's now exciting, innovative no, let's move to the next realm and start being the innovator. The A8 is now certainly a far more interesting car, and truly claim to be Audi's flagship.
And I don't only want to talk about I've got a million and one idea's to give idea a heads, such as a braking system that neither requires no brake pads, never wears, and never produces dust. I know their engineers have to be thinking about these things, let's start being the guy that makes these things happen. The A8 should and I believe will embody all that Audi stands.
09-09-2002, 08:15 AM
#12
Lower = similar pressure, less volume to compress
Lowering the car doesn't change the air pressure much or at all -- each corner's spring supports as much weight as before. (The pressure could change somewhat if the cross section of the piston where it enters the bag changes with ride height.)
Lowering reduces air volume, meaning the pressure in the spring rises more rapidly for the same amount of bump travel -- it's stiffer.
Analogously, it takes more force to push the handle of a bicycle pump when the end of hose is blocked (small spring) than when it's attached to a big tire (big spring), even if the tire and blocked hose start at the same pressure.
Lowering reduces air volume, meaning the pressure in the spring rises more rapidly for the same amount of bump travel -- it's stiffer.
Analogously, it takes more force to push the handle of a bicycle pump when the end of hose is blocked (small spring) than when it's attached to a big tire (big spring), even if the tire and blocked hose start at the same pressure.
09-09-2002, 08:21 AM
#15
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I've been assuming ...
.
that there is no steel spring at all, that it's a 100% pneumatic air spring. [Is this correct?]
These are progressive by nature; but if you have to lower the air pressure to lower ride height, it does become more progressive with suspension travel. I guess that this is the key, as ttuling pointed out.
that there is no steel spring at all, that it's a 100% pneumatic air spring. [Is this correct?]
These are progressive by nature; but if you have to lower the air pressure to lower ride height, it does become more progressive with suspension travel. I guess that this is the key, as ttuling pointed out.
09-09-2002, 08:58 AM
#17
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Now I am in shock too...
Must... get... new... A8! But before that's possible I will still very much enjoy the one I have right now.
Most of the pictures in the gallery are speaking a bit "louder" to me than previously seen pics. Hypnotic!
Most of the pictures in the gallery are speaking a bit "louder" to me than previously seen pics. Hypnotic!
09-09-2002, 09:15 AM
#19
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Re: A huge step in the right direction, this is what flagship is all about
Get your facts up right before you ramble, huh? The A8 has the fingerprint system as an option, but that is not important. What is important is that I would never take anyone seriously that decides which car has the best performance based on 0-60 mph times. Get real, these are not dragsters, ok? (You have other facts wrong too, and you compare apples with rabbits, but I don't care to debate that with you, as it obviously is a waste of time.)
Performance is something totally different than 0-60 mph times, and if any MB can compete with the new 8 when it comes to real road performance dollar for dollar, feature by feature, I would be very, very, *very* suprised! But it will not happen.
BTW, the A8 is not targeted at MB, it is targeted at BMW. The VW Phaeton is targeted at MB, and guess what? It beats the MB S-class in head to head tests, like for instance in Auto, Motor & Sport. The A8 is a lot lighter than the Phaeton, and will for sure be a lot more dynamic drive. Go figure the result when compared to a comparable MB S.
Now lets do a fair comparison here for a change, the new A8 4,2 compared with the MB S430 4Matic. This is the only fair comparison in the S-class, since it has similar engine size, and is the closest price match. (Well, the A8 is supposed to be EUR 5K cheaper, but we'll let that pass.)
Lets start with the engine, the MB puts out 279 HP, the A8 335. Torque is higher in the A8 too, 430 Nm vs 400 Nm. The MB numbers are lower than current A8 4,2, not impressive MB!
Now, let's take a look at your so much loved acceleration figures; The A8 does 0-100 Km/h in 6,3 seconds, the MB is a full second slower. So it is a bad performer too, huh?
Now, the A8 has a 6-speed autobox, the MB a old 5-speed. The MB weighs in at 1980 Kg, the A8 at 1780. The MB uses more fuel, 12,5 l/100 km vs. 11,9 for the A8. The list goes on.
Now I suggest you try to compare one by one which feature the new A8 has as standard or option, and then see if you can find the same in the S430 4M list. I guarantee you that you will find stuff the S don't have, but it's better you do it yourself.
Bottom line is, the A8 4,2 will outperform the S430 4M in mostly every way. And when the first head to head tests arrive, we will se who gets the best grade. I would be very suprised if the S430 has much of a chance, and that is in fact an unbiased view.
Performance is something totally different than 0-60 mph times, and if any MB can compete with the new 8 when it comes to real road performance dollar for dollar, feature by feature, I would be very, very, *very* suprised! But it will not happen.
BTW, the A8 is not targeted at MB, it is targeted at BMW. The VW Phaeton is targeted at MB, and guess what? It beats the MB S-class in head to head tests, like for instance in Auto, Motor & Sport. The A8 is a lot lighter than the Phaeton, and will for sure be a lot more dynamic drive. Go figure the result when compared to a comparable MB S.
Now lets do a fair comparison here for a change, the new A8 4,2 compared with the MB S430 4Matic. This is the only fair comparison in the S-class, since it has similar engine size, and is the closest price match. (Well, the A8 is supposed to be EUR 5K cheaper, but we'll let that pass.)
Lets start with the engine, the MB puts out 279 HP, the A8 335. Torque is higher in the A8 too, 430 Nm vs 400 Nm. The MB numbers are lower than current A8 4,2, not impressive MB!
Now, let's take a look at your so much loved acceleration figures; The A8 does 0-100 Km/h in 6,3 seconds, the MB is a full second slower. So it is a bad performer too, huh?
Now, the A8 has a 6-speed autobox, the MB a old 5-speed. The MB weighs in at 1980 Kg, the A8 at 1780. The MB uses more fuel, 12,5 l/100 km vs. 11,9 for the A8. The list goes on.
Now I suggest you try to compare one by one which feature the new A8 has as standard or option, and then see if you can find the same in the S430 4M list. I guarantee you that you will find stuff the S don't have, but it's better you do it yourself.
Bottom line is, the A8 4,2 will outperform the S430 4M in mostly every way. And when the first head to head tests arrive, we will se who gets the best grade. I would be very suprised if the S430 has much of a chance, and that is in fact an unbiased view.
09-09-2002, 10:40 AM
#20
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I'm excited about the New A8.
I was seriously considering an RS6, but I'm a BIG gadget guy. And with all the stuff that's going to be on the New A8, there is NO WAY I could justify to myself an RS6 over a new A8 especially when I consider that the A8 will likely be cheaper. I'd like to wait for the next S8, but I may not be able to, too many goodies to tempt me.
I think that this puts the A8 in a new league. It looks nice, though I'm with some that the MB S still looks better, and WAY better than that dog of a BMW 7. Every new picture of the A8 makes it grow on me even more.
I am disappointed that we will just be seing the A8L. I think that the added length of the A8 will make it very nice here in the US and I'm afraid that just having the L here will give us something a little too long and not as fun as the standard model. We haven't seen any pics of the L either and while the A8 is beautifully proportioned in my opinion I hope the L will be too. The current L over standard is not as nice looking in my opinion and looks "stretched". I only have to look at the MB S Class. They only sell the long version in the US as well, but it doesn't have the "stretched" look. It may be OK, because I'm betting the S8 will be standard length and if it is, it'll be mine.
I'm also excited about the next A6, I'm sure a lot of these features will be heading down to the new A6 and it will make that model VERY competative with the new E Class and new 5 series.
Just my $.02
I think that this puts the A8 in a new league. It looks nice, though I'm with some that the MB S still looks better, and WAY better than that dog of a BMW 7. Every new picture of the A8 makes it grow on me even more.
I am disappointed that we will just be seing the A8L. I think that the added length of the A8 will make it very nice here in the US and I'm afraid that just having the L here will give us something a little too long and not as fun as the standard model. We haven't seen any pics of the L either and while the A8 is beautifully proportioned in my opinion I hope the L will be too. The current L over standard is not as nice looking in my opinion and looks "stretched". I only have to look at the MB S Class. They only sell the long version in the US as well, but it doesn't have the "stretched" look. It may be OK, because I'm betting the S8 will be standard length and if it is, it'll be mine.
I'm also excited about the next A6, I'm sure a lot of these features will be heading down to the new A6 and it will make that model VERY competative with the new E Class and new 5 series.
Just my $.02