April

The A8 and S8 are about those non-quantifiable things. You buy one to please yourself, not to impress others with the likes of Mercedes or BMW. The most expensive car you can buy, is the one you are itching to replace almost as soon as you've driven it home. Are you buying this car for yourself, or your car buddies, business assosiates, and friends ?

When I see a nice old V8 ( there is a super nice one near where I used to live ), I know the owner is appreciative of good engineering, not a fashion victom. An older Mercedes ( non-diesel )or BMW just means thery aspire to the prestige of a new version, but cannot afford one. Halo effect spills both ways over to new cars.

We've gone from selling 2500 short wheelbase cars, to 3600 total last year. There will only be a total of 600 S8s sent here. There might be another batch next year if interest is great enough.

PS the Brits also say this is the thinking mans executive car

downindenver

1) Agreed, many people buying S8s will trade up in a few years...after the newer model is available. While some care about resale value, what truly differentiates the S8 from the A8 or even an S500 is exclusivity. You just won't see many of them, and this is what appeals to my parents (who will have one this winter).

2) Performance? Sorry, lost me there. This car is based on the A8...which was designed *way* before the LMP cars. It shares nothing, nada, zippo. Regarding understeer, read a comparo of the A8 vs Merc vs Lexus vs Bimmer. One of the most common complaints is that the A8 pushes. Some say its because of the tires (which it may be), but my experience with the A8 only backs up the mags. Audi tunes AWD to understeer. Ever see the Top Gear RS4 video? If not...can you guess what Tiff Nedells biggest criticism of the RS4 is? I've driven 3 generations of quattros extensively (4000Q, 90Q, and A4Q) and they all push big time.

3) There are a few things that really distinguish the A8 line from the other big sedans. Exclusivity is one of them. My parents like to drive a car that nobody knows. An occasional enthusiast points at it or gives a thumbs up, but otherwise its a ghost. The other issue is AWD stability and dependability. 2WD w/ traction control can't match quattro in foul weather. And this is not just a snow/ice issue...as you probably know it makes rain driving a pleasure.

So...they're selling their '97 A8 to move up. The S8 offers a little more oomph, better brakes, more grip, and a tad more exclusivity. Exclusivity may hurt resale, but in this league, resale price shouldn't be a factor...depreciation is already way higher than you'd see on an A4.

vacarfan

There's no question the intangibles are there. But even if you get to the point in your career where you can comfortably afford a car like the S8 doesn't mean you suddenly become value-insensitive. I tend to think of cars in terms of total cost of ownership over a 3-4 year span. By that measure cars like the E55, 911, etc are fairly good values. It's not a question of affordability, it's just that 10k in lost resale value vs an M5 or E55 is 10k that you could have spent on a cool vacation or something. The question is: Is the S8 worth an M5 plus a 10k vacation? or 10k extra in your portfolio or a 10k TV or whatever.

Having said that, I'll probably still get the S8. But I just wanted to make the point that value is not irrelevant at any income or asset level this side of Gates. I may not be affected financially by leaving a $500 tip at dinner tomorrow, but you better believe I'm not going to do it. And I certainly hope I never get to the point financially where I don't even think about $10k in extra depreciation on a car. That's a lot of money no matter who you are.

s4wood

What were you thinkin? :-)

BTW, I have owned three Cherokees in my past.

A 930?

downindenver

Yea...bought a Cherokee when I sold my Audi. Needed to lease something cheap that could tow my Sea Doo and serve bad weather duty. I don't drive it much...had it since June and only driven 4000 miles. Fun truck though.

So why did I sell off the Audi? I wanted something more involving...not just faster, but requires more driver skill. I wanted to drive my '72 911 daily. Unfortunately it wouldn't last very long doing that. So I looked at newer cars. Originally I was hell-bent on getting a Porsche 993, but found myself loving the raw, unrefined surge of the 930. Then voila...got one!

So the 930 is my daily driver

Carlos Ramirez

I want an S8 just can justify it :-)

asics

Unless the S8 becomes the "ultimate" A8, which it is not likely to since the W12 is on the way, it will probably have similar resale to other cars in it's price range. Which means not very good resale. My 740il with very low miles, a popular color and excellent condition, lost almost half it's value in 4 years. The people who buy these cars want their friends to know that they have the latest model so when a new body style comes out the old ones value drops like a stone. Take a look at the price of a 94 740 or a 95/96 540, it's not enough to pay for a major repair on these cars.

downindenver

This sort of depreciation is not uncommon in high priced luxury cars. But 1) many say the W12 won't come to the states, and 2) if it does, will it have the other S-car goodies...ie brakes, suspension, etc.? Probably not. And A8 is an A8...its about luxury. An S car adds a sportier edge.

ScottS8no2

Hi Josh,

Thanks for your reply. Haven't gotten back to the forum in a while, but wanted to post my response to yours re: performance.

First, I did not mean to suggest in my message that you're buying the RS8 technology when you buy the S8 -- clearly it's older. My point was simply that you were buying the Audi Quattro heritage of road-holding, of which the RS8 is the most recent refinement.

Audi has spent so much energy and money developing the quattro systems because they help win races. This investment does trickle down into their production cars.

As to the S8 pushing, I agree it does. But all front engine sedans push -- it's the physics of the design. My point was only that a quattro equipped vehicle (particularly with ESP) will hold its line better than a straight rear-wheel drive. This makes perfect sense: there's twice the active contact patch to work with.

That said, your note suggests the S8's road-holding characteristics are WORSE than something like a BMW 7-series. If you've read that in magazines, then so be it. I just can't imagine, however, how such a result would be possible. If it is, then why doesn't Audi just save it's customers the $5,000 expense of having quattro running gear and be more price competitive? More important, why have they spent millions of dollars and decades of engineering effort refining such systems if they don't work? I don't know which magazine you read such results in, but having a current quattro system UNDERperform a standard 2whl drive is practically unbelievable.

(Further to this point, Porsche deploys a quattro system in its Carrera 4. This car, several thousand dollars more than the C2, is sold with the promise that the full-time four-wheel drive provides better road-handling characteristics. I can't imagine both companies are lying.)

Then there's the question of dial-in. The S8 suspension, while still not "race quality", is certainly more precise than the a standard sedan's. Again vs the BMW 7, I can't imagine the S8 having more understeer. It just doesn't make sense. The BMWs are not sport tuned and, further, are specifically designed to understeer as a safety feature for "average" drivers. If Audi top-of-the line execution can't beat the road-holding scores of heavier, higher vehicles with engineered understeer, then there is definately something wrong.

Finally, it is worth noting that the tires on previous A8s have been cited as weak links in the system. I don't recall which tire was shipping with the A8s, but it was selected because of the package deal shared with Volkswagen (Continentals?), not because it was a perfect marraige for the car. With the S8, Audi has the opportunity to fix this issue, but we'll have to see. If the tires are not the best, then owners can make the decision to switch out for tires of their preference. The fact the car ships with suboptimal tires, however, should not be confused for a fundemental lack of performance.

If personal experience is any measure, I can say from my time in the S4 that Audi's sport/quattro combo delivers. The car is noticably more dialed in and has less understeer tendancies than, say, the BMW M3. In fact, as I drove it, I found myself frequently turning too hard and closing in on the wall -- an "on rails" effect versus a "powerslide" one. (This tendancy was a vestige of Porsche driving experience where you get accustomed to "sliding" nicely on a arc if you give it a little extra turn-in and early throttle).

The net result of the S4's equipment is the opportunity to scrub off less speed into a turn, as well as to apply the throttle sooner after you've initiated turn-in. In racing, less braking and more throttle = faster lap time. There's no reason at least some of these benefits won't come through in normal street operation of an S/Quattro product.

S

'00 Santorin S4

Same with S4, S6, ...gee I think I see a trend here!