angelglo

I just want to give some insight on the R&R of the tiptronic Audi Transmission. I just bought a 2005 Audi A8 for $1950 earlier this month. I thought this was a sreaming deal, and it was. Interior is in great condition execpt for some small issues like the broken MMI gears, broken storage compartments, and some other small stuff which I have all fixed. Engine ran great and had 160k miles. But... the second gear in the transmission had problems slipping and a hard jerk. I expected it needed to be replaced so I bought one off ebay for $500.00. I have R&R many transmission in my life including many chevy 4 wheel drives with the NP transfer cases. These were easy because the transfer casese could be separated from the tranny.

I knew nothing about the tiptronic transmissions with all wheel drive but I quickly found out.

If you are a garage mechanic, I would suggest that you do not take on this tranmission removal in your driveway and if you do, have a helper and a tranny jack. I know there is a tutoral on this process and I read up on it. It was just a little different than my 2005 A8 but the method and some proceedures were the same.

This was probably the worst transmission change that I ever had to do. Lucky for me, a family memeber had a service garage with a lift and tranny jack who help me free of charge. He told me that the service hours for this is 20 hours. This equates to a lot of money for a garage to buy and replace a transmission. We were able to do the entire R&R in about 12 hours over 2 days. If you do this in your driveway with just jack stands, It will probably take 5 full days and you will probably get hurt in the process. I WOULD NOT SUGGEST THIS IN YOUR DRIVEWAY. ..

The tiptronic is a huge beast and I suspect it probably weighs about 400-500 pounds. There were some issues with accessing some bolts like the top collector bolts and the top of the tranny to motor bolt. The top motor bolts required a lot of torque to remove and you would have a difficult time if you were laying on your back and on the floor. It required a few extensions and a larger breaker bar. Our IR impact wrench had didnt budge it. The top of the collector bolts were difficult to get to. In fact, we gave up trying to remove the rght side top collector bolt and just left the exhaust in place and worked around it. You will also need an engine supporr bar. Using an engine hoist or a jack or jack stands under the engine would just get in your way. Also, if you do tackle this, unplug the driver side front O2 sensor from the passenger side fender. Dont bother trying to unscrew it from the exhaust as it will just be too difficult.

So, this was just an insight/warning on doing this project. If you decide to do it. good luck and if you have any questions, just ask and I will try to answer.

dvs_dave

angelglo

Well, I really dont know as I have never worked with Audis before. If you were to ask me that same question regarding a mopar, then yes. But, a 69 camaro, then no. It would seem like more steps involved with removing engine and tranny on an Audi A8 but i really couldnt answer that question. With the amount of stuff in the engine compartment of the A8, I had decide just to tackle the tranny removal alone. But, you may be right.

BUT.. for the purpose of this thread, I would really suggest that a shade tree mechanic not do either tranny or engine tranny combo removal at home in your driveway.

MP4.2+6.0

FWIW, for my 2000 A6 4.2 with the old junk 5 speed ZF (same as D2), the tranny shop that did a lot of Audi's and ZF's pulled just the tranny when it blew up one night. The classic give it gas, sickening clunk and snap noise, and instant SAFE mode light show. Fortunately the 6 speeds are way more reliable, and board reports of truly broke nones are close to zero. Meantime, OP always good to have the tips for when there is no choice but to pull--or have it done.

Big picture though, unless I found metal bits in the pan after pulling that first for inspection, I would have gone a different direction--"Plan B." And indeed, that was my diagnostic on the final C5 blow up. Pulled pan and lots of clutch crap and metal pieces. If nothing unusual in the pan as seems to be the norm from all those who have done pan and filter changes and reported in, then just pull the valve body and replace the solenoids and the upper seal that fastens it into the case. It is right above the filter when you pull the pan. I say "just" though not at all for casual DIY. Nor is tranny pull. 4.2 also doesn't have the difficult exhaust interference issue with the pan like S8 and W12 do. Probably something like 10-12 man hours total (including valve body disassembly and fluid refill), All single man with car simply up on ramps. I did a valve body pull on the C5 A6 5 speed so felt comfortable with it. I sent that one in for rebuild, but on D3's they are a lot pricier and I figured at most it was a solenoid since mine was pretty gear specific and a flare.

Hmmm/wait, I did it! On the 2006 W12 with the somewhat beefed up version. Cost me a little under $500 for the complete solenoid set from the ZF distributor (ordered by ZF three letter code on the nameplate), plus the seal, gasket and fluid. When I was done, at about 105K it shifted just like when I bought it nearly new at 5K miles and a year old CPO. Way, way easier than tranny pull stuff that I now just leave to the shops. Might well have just been the $40-50 seal BTW and not even the solenoids. But since the valve body had to come out anyway to replace the seal, I was game. See the pic of the deformed seal side by side with the replacement. I suspect from some deep dive reviews of BMW 6 speed ZF posts (given approx zero Audi posts exist on it before I did mine), the seal may well be the culprit on shift, flare and gear miss stuff. Work was almost 5 years ago now, and no problems ever since then.

angelglo

Hey MP4. Thanks for that Info. I see that you are in the SF bay area. Im in the peninsula. Millbrae to be exact. I wish i had found you sooner. You might have been able to give me some knowledge. I did toy around with just doing a tranny filter and fluid change. But this would have cost me about $250 alone for the oil and filter. And if it didnt work, I would have been out that cash. I wanted a more reliable alternative so i found a tranny here in Ca. and had it shipped. Having a auto shop business license helps with both the price of the part and sjhipping cost. not to mention that the ship next day to auto shops. Anyway, it has a 6 month warantee so that is why i went that route. Also, i didn't realize what a challenge the tranny R&R would be. I do still have the other tranny. Any suggestions on what I should do with it? if its just the solenoid or valve body, that would be an easy fix but as of right now, its just a paper weight.

MP4.2+6.0

Yep, you likely have an expensive paperweight/door stop. Hard to verify fix now w/ it out of car, assumimg you don't have rebuilder type test equipment.

If you want to tinker, pull valve body and look at that seal. If it looks like the one in my pic with the distortion compared to the new one--or worse--that is (was) your likely issue. You can imagine it sets up a basic pressure leak at that point. I have a picture of the case too where it shows the seal was flexing and also abrading the case. It has been years now, but IIRC the BMW 6 speed AT posts even identified they had issues with second gear. Mine was up at 5-6 so it was a bit more guessing with no prior on point info I could find. The BMW pics show the seal outright torn up compared to my somewhat distorted one.

If you find seal issues, then of course you could replace and try to resell, but may be hard to convince someone beyond yourself it is now likely ok without having that test equipment a ZF or other rebuilders do/should. Realistic market for D3 trannies is also small--vehicles getting old now and the trannies are reliable to start with. Gearing also varies by application, and given the built in front and mid diffs, you can't just interchange these and rely on rear end gearing specifics like old American iron.

I hope you changed the fluid and filter BTW on the replace. A shame for all that labor otherwise. If you search, some use non-ZF/Audi fluids for a lot fewer dollars that meet the manufacturer spec/oil type per their labelling.

dvs_dave

ltooz_a6_a8_q7

You can remove everything out with the trannie is still in the car?
Why don't people do this when they have problems with shifting?

Cheers,
Louis

MP4.2+6.0

Yes you can get the two/three most important parts out--filter, then valve body, then seal. At that point you can do all the solenoids and the seals, or just the seal if you are guessing that and then confirming it by seeing deterioration or warping. The clutches of course all stay in tranny--up in top part of my pictures you can see edges of some through the slits in components. You pul the TCM off the valve body (which is fragile plastic) to get at solenoids, but no more disassembly than that. None of those little bearing type things you see in AT pictures sometimes too that would regulate flow. No feeler gauge type stuff, shims or anything else like in a gear box either. Deeper in valve body there might be the little bearings and such, but that would be a ZF rebuilder type job.

The R&R still isn't for the casual DIY wrencher though--probably something like 8 points on a 10 point difficulty scale. But more a finesse job--working on precision parts generally bathed in oil where you need a clan garage or shop. Nothing like grunting the tranny out and in in. If it turns out to be just the seal, that is easier--hardest part becomes releasing shifter cable. You don't get into pulling offf the TCM though like you do for the solenoids (which connect to it); the fragility of the plastic TCM is where you get more into bench work--or in my case on the floor with the absorbing paper and some cardboard underneath for padding. On D3's specifically, I think a lot of people earlier got hung up on the old hoot TSB as some kind of magic fix, which it isn't. You also need to be prepared to get fully under car, work with ramps, and level vehicle for fluid fill. Oh, and lost art for many these days, one needs to get on a quaint tool called a phone, maybe with a pen and paper. You actually probably have to call some guy at the ZF distributor in CT to get some live advice and exactly the parts/solenoid set you need. That is, one doesn't just click it to his shopping cart on Amazon and presto.

sswari

FWIW, I did an 06 A6 4.2 trans swap on jack stands and ramps. Was it a bitch, ya sort of. The trans to motor bolts were by far not the worst. the fly wheel to TC was in my case and delayed the job by a few days easy. Ended up striping one of the triple square bolts (major Bummer) Ended up getting a dremal tool (at a pawn shop for $25 or $30 what a deal) with a flex cord and ground off the head. Would I do it again, hell yes, on the ground in the front yard, probably not, but it can be done. Take your time and follow the instructions. One Bolt at a time.