GR8-LIFE

So I am replacing my tires today at tires plus and the tech said something about the control arms wearing down. My 2013 has 35k mi. Is this normal? any known TSB? Have never ever had to replace a control arm.

MP4.2+6.0

The weakest part of the D3 design, and basically carried over to D4--upper control arms in particular. TBD specifically on D4's given younger age, so you are one of those canaries in the coal mine. From sporadic posts here on D4, I'm pretty sure same issues are lurking. The sway bar link is different in shape on D4 from D3 (usually the second part to go), but those are also popping up on D4 posts already as well.

Before offing tires, look for wear on inner edge of fronts. Related to control arm issues--seems to occur on braking when forces tweak suspension alignment momentarily (relative to static alignment when sitting on an alignment rack) if bushings are weak. The wear will look like classic toe alignment issue, but it is commonly then the worn bushings. And don't pay for an alignment w/ out changing them if an issue. Or said another way, w/ them changed alignment returns if it wasn't adjusted in first place. But if aligned before parts change it basically just dials in the wear but still allows the alignment to move around under braking force if not addressed.

More specifically, the weak spot is typically the upper arms on the inner rubber bushing. Bushings can be replaced as a separate part for less $, but arms still have to come out. Best way to inspect is to pull the bolt on the hub/ball joint side so you can move each arm around a lot. Surface level cosmetics are no big deal, but deeper cracks or any tearing is a sure sign of issues. Upper arms are not hard to do; its the lower ones that are more pain in neck but they wear better.

For some pics from D3, see my post linked in my auto sig: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-.../#post24620404 Lots of pictures in replies 19-23 where you see several that are well cracked. That was enough to start scrubbing off the inside of my front tires toward end. And if you read thru whole thread, that was SECOND time they were changed. Dealer first did the bushings back at...34,595 miles as I noted there (reply 16). I knew the issue from my C5 4.2 where the aluminum suspension was first used on C bodies, after being intro'ed mid life on D2's. Design fundamentally is off an A4 from mid to late 90's and has never been beefed up enough to handle the higher body and wheel weights as well as braking forces of the bigger Audi's. And just in case you are wondering, air ride is really just an add on that replaces steel spring and conventional strut. The arm design is pretty much the same across all these.

Ritz

Periodic replacement of the control arms (because of cracked bushings that are molded into the arm) are just a fact of life with Audi. It's one of my least favorite maintenance jobs because it's a pain in the rump, but not particularly hard (just time consuming). I replaced them ALL on every Audi that I have ever owned at least once. I think the longevity record for me was about 75k miles for the C5 A6. On one of the A4's, I replaced them at 40k miles.

Best,

GR8-LIFE

spoke with my dealer today about it. The car is going in for the 35K mi service next wed (Thank Goodness the A8's came with AUDI CARE!). He is going to check them out.

The shop mgr (who use to be my SA) said cracking of the rubber bushings is normal (nothing to worry about) and he suspects that is exactly what Tires Plus saw when they looked at it. He said he dint think the businghs would be split compltely (which is when they would replace the arms) at 35K. He said more like at 75K (exacly what you said)

He also said I would be feeling a "clunk clunk" noise when going over a bump and there would be alot of play in the SW if they were split completely. He said if they were split compltely at 35K he would replace them as a defect at N/C whether my warranty was expired or not.

I gotta say I really like my AUDI dealer. They have done some extra things for me in the past and its one of the very few dealers I have confidence in with all my cars that I have owned (including my my previous 3 Lexus models)

polo1

So cracked bushings are "normal"... ?

GR8-LIFE

from what he explained, yes, cracks will be seen as they wear. When the bushings are nearly split completly is when the arms need to be replaced. Thats what he said

MP4.2+6.0

Its a matter of degree. Surface cracks yes, cracked most or all the way through, no. And torn out is way past no good to really screwing up tires. Torn out is about all you can see easily from casual inspection. If you pull the ball joint side bolt, then as I said you can move them around on bushing end and sort out little surface type cosmetic cracks vs. the deep cracks. There is a D3 TSB from years ago that gives some practical examples. See the link to my D3 post in earlier replies (or in my auto sig.) for a whole series of pictures of them and judgment calls.

For GR8-LIFE, again look for wear on inside of front tires as practical guide to when to be more critical of them, besides noise. And if you have noise, from posts folks have been making, suspect sway bar links as just as likely. Those don't affect tire wear though, and post started around a tire set change out. If you have noise at your next dealer visit, just give them the symptom and then let them sort it. Or, I give them the symptom plus some pointers and what I saw looking at it. Presto...things usually get replaced.

GR8-LIFE

Correct me if I am wrong but dont you always get some inside tire wear because most of these cars have a touch of negative camber? I've never ever been able to avoid some kind of inside tire wear on any performance car

Also, Since the car is going in next wed my thinking is surely they could certainly deduce the significance of the bushing wear and advise.

MP4.2+6.0

My C5 4.2, D3 W12 and Q5 2.0T Hybrid (which has more peak torque actually than any of the other Q5 motors) all wear evenly; all 4000 pounds plus too. 300K miles experience just on those three for starters, and over 250K with C5 and D3 that have essentially same bushing and arm set up. D4 is too new to show any real wear. More specifically, outside and inside scrub off slightly in front but it is symmetrical on the two sides. With rotation, I typically just lose a tire from general tread/large center area, and never the edges if car set up is in order. When I see inside wear specifically, something is wrong. I have essentially lost a set of front tires in as little as 5,000 miles if I don't catch the bushing wear issue--happened on C5 at one point.

KnappAttack

Just got a call from my Audi service writer as my car has been in the shop for a couple of weeks getting some warranty work done. I asked him to check over the front end because it has not been handling good lately and I saw some inside tire wear on the fronts when I rotated the tires at 90,000 miles.

Glad I had him look at it as the upper bushings are gone again. This is the second time, first time was at about 45,000 miles. Now again at 90,000. This just seems crazy to me that they don't last any longer than that.

First time I changed out a set of bushings on my 05 A6 sport package car was at 190,000 miles!!!!

Why can't Audi build bushings that last??? Or, redesign a suspension that does not abuse these bushings to death?