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...my point was really only to say that newer doesn’t always mean better and these are just some real life examples.
100% agreed. Even with the pullback on quality in materials or finish or what have you, this car typically trumps everything else around me while I'm driving, with few exceptions. To date I've only seen 2 other S8s around town, a white one and a silver one. I've seen a black big body Audi in one of the driveways in my neighborhood, but I suspect that it's a debadged A8.
100% agreed. Even with the pullback on quality in materials or finish or what have you, this car typically trumps everything else around me while I'm driving, with few exceptions. To date I've only seen 2 other S8s around town, a white one and a silver one. I've seen a black big body Audi in one of the driveways in my neighborhood, but I suspect that it's a debadged A8.
The 7-series outsold the A8 like 3:1 and the S-class like 5:1 in D4 era so even just the rarity of it gives it a bit of an upper hand imo.
I haven’t been doing a great job keeping this timeline updated. I’ll try to get back at it since it’s not only possibly helpful to others but a good way for me to keep track of everything.
I spent a little time trying to figure out if the Horch wheels fit the design language of the D4 and if I want to pursue them
Yeah absolutely. And I’m comparing top trim to top trim (W12, dual glazed, full leather). The easiest and most glaring difference is how much quieter the D3 with road noise despite having wider and lower profile tires (275/35/20 vs 265/40/20) and how the D3 does not have interior creaks. None!
Here’s a quick bullet pointed list of things I find better on the D3 than D4. Some are steps back in build quality for the D4 and some are steps back in features:Zero dash creaks.
Front and rear consoles much more firmly in place.
Metal handles on center armrest.
Retractable coat hangers.
Retractable door pockets.
Higher quality plastic on seat and headlight switches.
Overhead console doesn’t feel hollow/creak.
Quieter cabin even though wider, lower profile tires.
Flush exterior door handles.
Two magnifications on front vanity mirrors.
Rear vanity mirrors swivel.
Real leather on leading edge of door panel on full leather cars (synthetic on D4 full leather)
More comfortable seats and much better rear seating position.
Real aluminum on ash tray/cup holder doors (plated plastic on D4)
Soft touch buttons (I know they can wear if mistreated but I’ve always had no issues and it’s much nicer than bare plastic).
Dash buttons near MMI screen don’t misalign like the D4- especially annoying because it’s right in the line of sight.
Felt lined glovebox (rubberized plastic on D4).
Full leather headrest even on non-leather cars (cheap plastic on back of non-leather D4).
The center of ***** seem to weirdly dent in many D4s, RSE volume ***** and HVAC temp *****
D3 has rear side window defrost, D4 does not
These are just things that come to my mind. There’s definitely some more tech on the D4, but as time goes on and they’re both equally outdated the D3 will be the one that’s more luxurious.
you certainly have a better eye for the detail than me, but I can say that my first impression of the then new D4 after a test drive was not so good.
the first thing that jumped out to me was the downgrade in leather. Whereas my 2007 SWB model, with the normal Interior, had Valcona leather, the D4 had Valletta. (Sp?). I also believe that the seat comfort was a bit better in the D3.
in fact, my original plan was to skip the D4 generation completely, and at some point get a D5. But the more I read about the new D5, the more I lost interest. The new tech didn’t move me. Then the delays took their toll.
so when my dealer offered me an about to expire build order slot for a D4 S8+, at a very large discount , i when for it, and I’m glad I did. First priority was a full leather Design Selection interior, and my discount covered that a couple of times over, so when it arrived, I was oblivious to any little shortcomings. I also didn’t particularly like the exterior lines of the D4 vs the D3, and I had noticed that some colors highlighted those lines , so I went with a color that tended to mask the lines. I’m very happy with my choices. I plan to keep my S8 as long as possible.
the drop off in the little things isn’t exclusive to Audi. I recently had a new Cayenne loaner for several days when my wife’s 2014 Cayenne S was in for service, and although I can’t put my finger on anything in particular, it just seemed slightly less substantial, but still a very good vehicle. The tech was actually annoying, but I suppose I would have adapted to it.
Have to agree with you. And great point actually about the base leather being real leather in the D3, that- and some of the interior plastic- is what surprises me most about the D4.
The more that cars are designed for the Chinese market the more we’ll see this trend. And actually when European cars started to be designed for the US there was a sharp decline in these same things as well. A MKIV VW holds up better from an all-around interior material standpoint than an A3/A4 of today and that’s simply wrong.
I have some really happy news today. Serendipitously I found something near the ditch by my house and I walked over to pick it up and recycle or throw it away. It was a chunk of modeling foam that had blown in from somewhere. I decided to adopt it and knew exactly what I was going to do with it.
In post #17 I showed the Audi exclusive ‘bar compartment’. I had purchase one some time ago but it was lost in transit over the Atlantic. Basically impossible to find though I look all the time. I decided to make my own since it’s a fairly simple piece. I molded the block of foam to what I think are basically the same dimensions as the factory piece- easy enough since I already had the Audi exclusive glasses. Then I thought about what I would use to hold the glasses in place. The original bar compartment has deformable plastic tabs that work exactly like the rear seat massage remote holder. A plastic extension that reaches up from a low point and had two bumps that rest over the lip of the glass. I dug through my drawers to see what I might have that would function in a similar way. I found some small command style hooks (see pic). I trimmed them down and created slots in the foam for them to slide into and then wrapped the whole thing in some OEM Alcantara I had laying around. Now it’s definitely not perfect. But I do have to say, I’m really happy with the result. I would love for either the whole storage bin to be Alcantara or for the bar compartment to be flocked. And I wish the command hook was black. But other that that it functions pretty much 100% like the OEM part and I think anyone that glanced at it and didn’t know anything about it would think it came from Audi.
Whereas my 2007 SWB model, with the normal Interior, had Valcona leather, the D4 had Valletta. (Sp?).
Reminds me of this..
Audi has left the "Alcantara" brand, now using "Dinamica" on the new cars. Sometimes marketing reasons, sometimes advertised as "better, more sustainable" I just bet Dinamica made a better deal aka cheaper.. I haven't touched it myself to make the comparison yet... I could care less about "sustainability" esp. now that its a marketing term, no one really knows the truth..
I started reading your response and was immediately thinking about their lawsuit. The truth is that Dinamica doesn’t feel as nice as Alcantara or look as nice (it has a shorter pile and is more like a man made material than a suede substitute, the pile is more pill-like than fiber-like leaving a less smooth and more textured appearance. Will most people notice? No. But it’s an inferior product in my eyes). It bothers me that Audi bought into the greenwashing campaign that Dinamica was sued over. Audi Sport GmbH themselves noted how they made the switch for environmental reasons saying they want to be carbon neutral by 2050 blah blah blah. The sad thing is that Alcantara is carbon neutral and has been since 2009 but Miko isn’t and won’t be until at least FY2024. Alcantara also uses recycled PET but takes it step further by actually tracing the recycled materials to ensure they’re actually post consumer (it’s actually a thing to sell virgin materials as post consumer and marking them up). They’ve also begun to introduce bio-based polymers.
Sustainability is super super important. And the worst part is we can be sustainable and live better lives. Have faster cars, more quality cars, cooler features. But we don’t. Exactly like you said when you say marketing term. We trade the better product (or idea) for the one that makes more profit short term or was marketed better.
I was under the impression that Alcantara had at least three different versions, with different piles and durability, for different purposes (like a headliner might get a different Alcantara product than seat inserts or door panels would get). Does Dinamica have the same? Maybe they have equivalent (superior?) products for some applications but not others. I've never seen Dinamica, and I'm only closely familiar with the Alcantara in my D2 S8 (which I owned for over 10 years and which had the extended leather package, which added Alcantara seat inserts and an Alcantara headliner) and my D4 S8 (which has the full leather package).
There’s tons of different versions of Alcantara, broken down by application mostly. Fashion, consumer electronics, automotive, marine/aviation, etc. The differences come down to thickness, breaking load and wear resistance to light and rubbing and each of them are slightly different including OEM and aftermarket automotive versions.
But we’re talking about the applications that Audi uses specifically: ‘cover’ line for seats, ‘panel’ line for doors/dash and ‘soft’ for headliners in the Alcantara range. And then perforated versions on top of all of these (square, round and ‘starlight’ which is white perforations)
Dinamica effectively uses one version slightly adapted to application. ‘auto’ is the standard version with no special properties, ‘auto pure’ uses recycled PET for the inner scrim, ‘stretch’ uses stretchable polyester for the inner scrim and ‘wide’ is the same at ‘stretch’ but comes in a wider bolt. The face layer is the same but the stretchable polyester has a lower wear rating so it’s not used on seats.
My non-functioning front cup holder light bothered me long enough so I decided to get in there to see why it wasn’t working. I assumed there was a break in the wires where the cup holder lid moves and I was exactly right. What I wouldn’t have guessed is how completely cooked the wires were. We’re talking rock hard and cemented to the plastic cup holder. I ran new wires from the bottom where there’s lots of room to solder a joint. But while it was out I thought I might see about covering the plastic interior with Alcantara. My cup holder is always open and the sight of the plastic bothers me. The results are genuinely not bad (I was surprised)
08-19-2022, 04:01 AM
