BMW's new inline 6's are insane. The S5/RS5 really need a power bump
10-25-2019, 06:34 PM
#71
AudiWorld Senior Member
Well he can express his love of that ugly grill or about BMW on BMW forums.
The B9 is a great wondercar for A5 / S5 / RS5 owners, the reason for that sub-section. After two Bimmers and also other brands, I love mine. If people talks *repeatedly* sh*t against it, it should be somewhere else.
The B9 is a great wondercar for A5 / S5 / RS5 owners, the reason for that sub-section. After two Bimmers and also other brands, I love mine. If people talks *repeatedly* sh*t against it, it should be somewhere else.
10-25-2019, 07:26 PM
#72
Well he can express his love of that ugly grill or about BMW on BMW forums.
The B9 is a great wondercar for A5 / S5 / RS5 owners, the reason for that sub-section. After two Bimmers and also other brands, I love mine. If people talks *repeatedly* sh*t against it, it should be somewhere else.
The B9 is a great wondercar for A5 / S5 / RS5 owners, the reason for that sub-section. After two Bimmers and also other brands, I love mine. If people talks *repeatedly* sh*t against it, it should be somewhere else.
I have 785 posts and you think I'm trolling?Go look at the definition of a troll, please.
Last edited by -=Hot|Ice=-; 10-25-2019 at 08:26 PM.
10-26-2019, 05:04 AM
#73
well Hot|Ice...
That's great for you! Feel free to block me. I'm not going to stop stating my opinion and try and get Audi to make their cars better. I never said what car I was going to get next. I'm just stating the B9 lacks in some key areas. Audi could have done so much more to make this a complete car. I am very passionate about cars and I expect more from a so called 'Premium' manufacturer. You were very vocal in that BMW thread about the grilles. I'm doing the same thing here. CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT? GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
I have 785 posts and you think I'm trolling?Go look at the definition of a troll, please.
I have 785 posts and you think I'm trolling?Go look at the definition of a troll, please.
In the scheme of things the better informed Audi enthusiasts here are well aware of the GT oriented design goals Audi adopted and the limited R&D that compromised the B9 design in significant ways. The criticisms here have been mild compared to the invective thrown at the F30 generation of 3/4 series on BMW boards - and rightly so
10-26-2019, 05:47 AM
#74
The A4/5 seems competitive from a straight line perspective, but with the new generation of BMW's severely underrated inline 6's out, Audi really needs a bump in power.
S5 numbers
RS5 numbers
M340i numbers
The M340i is nipping on the heels of the RS5. It's less than a second slower than the RS5 to 150mph, but beats the S5 by a whopping 7 seconds. It's in line with the Mustang GT and Camaro SS, cars of similar weight with 80 more horsepower on paper, and we even know that those cars put up slightly higher dyno numbers than advertised.
Even in the base X5, there's no way a 4900lb SUV with "335hp" should do 60 in less than 5 seconds. I'd estimate it's more like 400hp/400tq in that base X5 trim, in line with the dyno results of the new Supra.
On a recent CarWow video, the 4600lb X4M did a 11.8 quarter mile which is faster than the magazine tests on the RS5, last M3/4 Competition, and C63S. That motor in a 700lb lighter M3/4 will be insane, we're talking low 11's. I feel like the S5/RS5 need to be at least 400 and 520 "Audi horsepower" to match the new BMWs.
S5 numbers
RS5 numbers
M340i numbers
The M340i is nipping on the heels of the RS5. It's less than a second slower than the RS5 to 150mph, but beats the S5 by a whopping 7 seconds. It's in line with the Mustang GT and Camaro SS, cars of similar weight with 80 more horsepower on paper, and we even know that those cars put up slightly higher dyno numbers than advertised.
Even in the base X5, there's no way a 4900lb SUV with "335hp" should do 60 in less than 5 seconds. I'd estimate it's more like 400hp/400tq in that base X5 trim, in line with the dyno results of the new Supra.
On a recent CarWow video, the 4600lb X4M did a 11.8 quarter mile which is faster than the magazine tests on the RS5, last M3/4 Competition, and C63S. That motor in a 700lb lighter M3/4 will be insane, we're talking low 11's. I feel like the S5/RS5 need to be at least 400 and 520 "Audi horsepower" to match the new BMWs.
10-26-2019, 09:47 AM
#75
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
A new HD turbodiesel truck with 1000ftlb is still not going to be a dragster. It just means that engine makes more power down low than a 450hp turbo gas engine, which in turn makes more power down low than a high strung N/A gas engine. It'll feel more powerful at low RPM without having to kickdown to get into its powerband.
Anyway this whole hp/tq discussion is pointless when manufacturers don't give out numbers with wildly varying accuracy.
10-26-2019, 11:53 AM
#76
The only point of disagreement I might have is that in typical VAG style they've managed to squeeze remarkable handling out of this heavy/nose heavy beast - especially with the sport differential and dynamic steering. So much so that the coupe is a touch quicker than my E92 M3 coupe was on all of the (short and tight) circuits reported on fastest laps. But all of this is done with an air of detachment that makes it difficult to describe the car as sporty.
In the scheme of things the better informed Audi enthusiasts here are well aware of the GT oriented design goals Audi adopted and the limited R&D that compromised the B9 design in significant ways. The criticisms here have been mild compared to the invective thrown at the F30 generation of 3/4 series on BMW boards - and rightly so
In the scheme of things the better informed Audi enthusiasts here are well aware of the GT oriented design goals Audi adopted and the limited R&D that compromised the B9 design in significant ways. The criticisms here have been mild compared to the invective thrown at the F30 generation of 3/4 series on BMW boards - and rightly so
10-26-2019, 03:43 PM
#77
AudiWorld Member
When I was researching for my car purchase during early 2019, my requirements were as follows:
- A small-mid size car
- A car with 400+ hp, 0-60 in under 4s.
- 4 doors was a must. However Hatch was optional.
- Preferably not a first year model because of reliability and other concerns.
- A RWD car or an AWD where I can engage RWD mode since I wanted to practice and improve my Drifting skills.
- A price target of under $85k (pre-Taxes)
I was in love with the exterior designs of B9 S5 and RS5. I was leaning more towards the RS5 because I was looking at cars more in that price range / performance. However, the differences between S5 and RS5 were not prominent when I test drove - acceleration from stand still, acceleration on freeways to make a pass, the sound and character aspects, etc. Even interior differences between the two were very minor. I expected more exclusive RS5 specific interior upgrades for example, but there were none. They are both definitely nice cars, and if I was looking in the S5 price range / performance I would have pursued further with purchasing an S5.
M340i was barely released at that point, and after seeing the front grille in person during last year's LA Auto Show and the lack of Android Auto, I didn't pursue it further. M340i was slightly underpowered compared to my requirements. I knew I would have had to wait another two more years for the M3, and I didn't want to purchase the very first year model either. I also knew that the grille of M3 would be a more polarizing design (not in my favor). Withe recent leaked photos of the M3 grille, I'm glad I did not wait further.
Next, I test drove the C43 and C63S. C43 was closer to S5 but I felt the transmission was more reactive and anticipative, with less turbo lag compared to S5. The sound and character aspects were also better to S5/RS5 IMO.
C63S felt a whole other level compared to other cars that I test drove, even if its engine and generation have been around for the last 4-5 years. The V8 engine sound and the Perf Exhaust note adds so much character. The 9-speed MCT in the facelift model (2019) is very reactive and anticipative based on your driving style. I can drive the car in Comfort mode on freeways and I can accelerate easily when making quick passes effortlessly. The 516 lb-ft peak torque available early in the power band makes so much difference even during everyday driving for making passes, and C&D's 5-60mph rolling start time for the 2019 C63S sedan is @ 4.4s is indicative of this (vs 4.6s for 2018 RS5 Coupe, couldn't find the RS5 sportback test results). Interior-wise as well, C63S has exclusive interior options like Seats for example that are not available in the C43. The customizable AMG specific performance related gauges I can add to my Digital Instrument Cluster and/or the Infotainment head unit that I found other cars in this segment lacked. It even has a 9-stage adjustable traction control which you can play around with to master your drifting skills.
There are of course tradeoffs - no hatch, love the looks of RS5 better, etc. but I knew I was comfortable with those and hence went with the 2019 C63S Sedan, since it met my needs the best.
Growing up I have been a big time rally racing fan, and loved Audi's Quattro AWD based systems. I too wished Audi invested more in their performance R&D in this segment to remain competitive, instead of giving this up to Mercedes AMG and BMW M instead.
- A small-mid size car
- A car with 400+ hp, 0-60 in under 4s.
- 4 doors was a must. However Hatch was optional.
- Preferably not a first year model because of reliability and other concerns.
- A RWD car or an AWD where I can engage RWD mode since I wanted to practice and improve my Drifting skills.
- A price target of under $85k (pre-Taxes)
I was in love with the exterior designs of B9 S5 and RS5. I was leaning more towards the RS5 because I was looking at cars more in that price range / performance. However, the differences between S5 and RS5 were not prominent when I test drove - acceleration from stand still, acceleration on freeways to make a pass, the sound and character aspects, etc. Even interior differences between the two were very minor. I expected more exclusive RS5 specific interior upgrades for example, but there were none. They are both definitely nice cars, and if I was looking in the S5 price range / performance I would have pursued further with purchasing an S5.
M340i was barely released at that point, and after seeing the front grille in person during last year's LA Auto Show and the lack of Android Auto, I didn't pursue it further. M340i was slightly underpowered compared to my requirements. I knew I would have had to wait another two more years for the M3, and I didn't want to purchase the very first year model either. I also knew that the grille of M3 would be a more polarizing design (not in my favor). Withe recent leaked photos of the M3 grille, I'm glad I did not wait further.
Next, I test drove the C43 and C63S. C43 was closer to S5 but I felt the transmission was more reactive and anticipative, with less turbo lag compared to S5. The sound and character aspects were also better to S5/RS5 IMO.
C63S felt a whole other level compared to other cars that I test drove, even if its engine and generation have been around for the last 4-5 years. The V8 engine sound and the Perf Exhaust note adds so much character. The 9-speed MCT in the facelift model (2019) is very reactive and anticipative based on your driving style. I can drive the car in Comfort mode on freeways and I can accelerate easily when making quick passes effortlessly. The 516 lb-ft peak torque available early in the power band makes so much difference even during everyday driving for making passes, and C&D's 5-60mph rolling start time for the 2019 C63S sedan is @ 4.4s is indicative of this (vs 4.6s for 2018 RS5 Coupe, couldn't find the RS5 sportback test results). Interior-wise as well, C63S has exclusive interior options like Seats for example that are not available in the C43. The customizable AMG specific performance related gauges I can add to my Digital Instrument Cluster and/or the Infotainment head unit that I found other cars in this segment lacked. It even has a 9-stage adjustable traction control which you can play around with to master your drifting skills.
There are of course tradeoffs - no hatch, love the looks of RS5 better, etc. but I knew I was comfortable with those and hence went with the 2019 C63S Sedan, since it met my needs the best.
Growing up I have been a big time rally racing fan, and loved Audi's Quattro AWD based systems. I too wished Audi invested more in their performance R&D in this segment to remain competitive, instead of giving this up to Mercedes AMG and BMW M instead.
Last edited by tuxdude; 10-27-2019 at 06:27 AM.
The following users liked this post:
-=Hot|Ice=- (10-27-2019)
10-27-2019, 08:56 AM
#78
That's great for you! Feel free to block me. I'm not going to stop stating my opinion and try and get Audi to make their cars better. I never said what car I was going to get next. I'm just stating the B9 lacks in some key areas. Audi could have done so much more to make this a complete car. I am very passionate about cars and I expect more from a so called 'Premium' manufacturer. You were very vocal in that BMW thread about the grilles. I'm doing the same thing here. CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT? GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
I have 785 posts and you think I'm trolling?Go look at the definition of a troll, please.
I have 785 posts and you think I'm trolling?Go look at the definition of a troll, please.
10-27-2019, 09:00 AM
#79
In races, people wants HP for acceleration, the focus is not really about torque. Torque will ultimately help you for top speed as long your can maintain it going in upper RPM, even it might take a long time to get there.
Last edited by BlakeV; 10-27-2019 at 09:06 AM.
10-27-2019, 09:28 AM
#80
