So every tire has it's fans, but what about treadwear?
12-22-2003, 11:28 AM
#1
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So every tire has it's fans, but what about treadwear?
I'm sick of the 20k max for the junk Pirellis, and you can't seem to get treadwear ratings for the Dunlops or Nokians because they're 'winter tires'.
How many miles have folks been getting out of theirs?
TIA,
Ray
How many miles have folks been getting out of theirs?
TIA,
Ray
12-22-2003, 12:06 PM
#3
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allroads have Treadwear problems?
ooowoooohhhhooooooooooo..... oh ..
oh boy..
PHEW...
that was good.
(chuckle)
On the NSX - try less than 5-8k out of one set of fronts (shaking head). It got so bad, that new owners were given tire certificates good for new pairs of OEM rubber and factory alignment settings were changed.
Makes me wonder though... what sort of treadwear penalty does our height adjusting suspension extract? And are alignment settings optomized for one particular height?
-Rhumble
'01 allroad
'98 VFR
was 95 NS 'eater of tires' X
oh boy..
PHEW...
that was good.
(chuckle)
On the NSX - try less than 5-8k out of one set of fronts (shaking head). It got so bad, that new owners were given tire certificates good for new pairs of OEM rubber and factory alignment settings were changed.
Makes me wonder though... what sort of treadwear penalty does our height adjusting suspension extract? And are alignment settings optomized for one particular height?
-Rhumble
'01 allroad
'98 VFR
was 95 NS 'eater of tires' X
12-22-2003, 12:09 PM
#4
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It's amazing how much the treadwear seems to vary
Some folks have reported as little as 10k in the OE tires, others kept them until 30k. My Pirellis had more than 50% left when I removed them at 15k to put on the Ziex ZE-512 (excellent). The Pirellis will probably go back on at lease end.
I wonder why so much variation - bad alignments? air pressure? more abrasive road surfaces? Dunno. No, I'm not a sedate driver either
Over a wide variety of cars and tires i've owned, the general rule that treadwear is inversely proportional to dry grip seems to have held true. I guess I lean towards the more grip end of the equation....
I wonder why so much variation - bad alignments? air pressure? more abrasive road surfaces? Dunno. No, I'm not a sedate driver either
Over a wide variety of cars and tires i've owned, the general rule that treadwear is inversely proportional to dry grip seems to have held true. I guess I lean towards the more grip end of the equation....
12-22-2003, 12:14 PM
#5
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Re: allroads have Treadwear problems?
Variable-height suspension MUST affect camber. I've never seen a modern independent suspension that didn't change camber thru the travel range - it would corner terribly if it didn't.
Makes sense to optimize the alignment for the level you use most.
I read about those NSXs - they had the toe-in set really deep to give super turn-in response and left-right transitions, but most folks thought that they went a bit too far...
Makes sense to optimize the alignment for the level you use most.
I read about those NSXs - they had the toe-in set really deep to give super turn-in response and left-right transitions, but most folks thought that they went a bit too far...
12-22-2003, 12:15 PM
#6
Treadwear thoughts. . . .
Do you want a long lasting tire? Do you want a quiet tire? Do you want/need "all season" capability? Do you want/need high performance tires, ultra high performance tires or maximum performance tires?
If you answer "all of the above" or something that gets to both high performance and long life -- well, there is a problem.
Generally, the higher performing the tire, the shorter its life.
There are, currently, no max performance all-seaon tires. Some of the best performing tires are very noisy from day one -- some get noisy really fast (less than 10k miles) even though they do have adequate tread-life remaining.
Me, I want UHP or better (and a Z or better rating), quiet and as a low priority, all season rating.
The Yoko AVS db2, ostensibly, IS that tire -- trouble is it doesn't come in 245 x 45 x 18" version. So I have "settled" for UHP Z rated summer only super quiet tire that ought to last about 18 - 20K miles (Falken Azenis ST115's).
I had the fave of the board for about 19K miles -- the Mich Pilot Sport A/S and they were getting so loud I couldn't take it -- they seemed like they might have a couple more thousand miles of tread left, but I opted for quieter rather than longer.
My wife -- once -- put some Mich tire "H" rated on her TT 225HP coupe -- they were quiet, they had "great" tread life, they were all season and after being used to max performance tires on her TT, she noticed the drop from max performance Dunlop SP9000's to the Michelin's (sorry I can't remember their modeld designation).
You get something -- usually -- when you give up something. Many of us give up long tread life for higher performance. 20K seems -- from this particular vantage point -- just about right in terms of what I get in exchange.
If you want long lasting tires, they ARE out there -- they may not perform well, they may be an "OK" match to the allroad's suspension and chassis -- they be a poor match. It is hard to believe that they will be a GREAT match however.
Determine what you want, what you "need," how much you'll pay and what, if anything in terms of characteristics, you are willing to give up.
The saying -- "you can have, it with: high quality or low price or rapid delivery -- pick two" seems to be a good analogy for tires. Pick two: you can have long life, good performance or low price. Thus far we don't really have the ability to get all three traits (in tires).
If you answer "all of the above" or something that gets to both high performance and long life -- well, there is a problem.
Generally, the higher performing the tire, the shorter its life.
There are, currently, no max performance all-seaon tires. Some of the best performing tires are very noisy from day one -- some get noisy really fast (less than 10k miles) even though they do have adequate tread-life remaining.
Me, I want UHP or better (and a Z or better rating), quiet and as a low priority, all season rating.
The Yoko AVS db2, ostensibly, IS that tire -- trouble is it doesn't come in 245 x 45 x 18" version. So I have "settled" for UHP Z rated summer only super quiet tire that ought to last about 18 - 20K miles (Falken Azenis ST115's).
I had the fave of the board for about 19K miles -- the Mich Pilot Sport A/S and they were getting so loud I couldn't take it -- they seemed like they might have a couple more thousand miles of tread left, but I opted for quieter rather than longer.
My wife -- once -- put some Mich tire "H" rated on her TT 225HP coupe -- they were quiet, they had "great" tread life, they were all season and after being used to max performance tires on her TT, she noticed the drop from max performance Dunlop SP9000's to the Michelin's (sorry I can't remember their modeld designation).
You get something -- usually -- when you give up something. Many of us give up long tread life for higher performance. 20K seems -- from this particular vantage point -- just about right in terms of what I get in exchange.
If you want long lasting tires, they ARE out there -- they may not perform well, they may be an "OK" match to the allroad's suspension and chassis -- they be a poor match. It is hard to believe that they will be a GREAT match however.
Determine what you want, what you "need," how much you'll pay and what, if anything in terms of characteristics, you are willing to give up.
The saying -- "you can have, it with: high quality or low price or rapid delivery -- pick two" seems to be a good analogy for tires. Pick two: you can have long life, good performance or low price. Thus far we don't really have the ability to get all three traits (in tires).
12-22-2003, 12:49 PM
#7
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(no allroad content) 94+ alignment settings...
... were a way to go for NSX's in order to maximize on-road treadlife, but the car obviously did lose some of that amazingly aggressive bite.
Different owners obvious had different preferences. I opted for less optimal handling characteristics and more real world usefullness in terms of making my Dunlop SP9000's wear longer.
S'all a trade off.
-Rhumble
Different owners obvious had different preferences. I opted for less optimal handling characteristics and more real world usefullness in terms of making my Dunlop SP9000's wear longer.
S'all a trade off.
-Rhumble
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12-23-2003, 05:11 AM
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Re: Falken Ziex has 30K warranty.
We just replaced he Pirellis at 22k, they had worn badly and were thumping due to being out-of-round and were badly cupped. Actually the thumping had started around 8k and got progressively worse.
So far the Falken Ziex's are great. Nice ride, low noise, good handling, W-rated, 30k tread wear warranty, and about 1/2 the cost of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. Consumer Reports just tested high performance A/S tires and the Ziex was #1 overall.
Jim
So far the Falken Ziex's are great. Nice ride, low noise, good handling, W-rated, 30k tread wear warranty, and about 1/2 the cost of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. Consumer Reports just tested high performance A/S tires and the Ziex was #1 overall.
Jim