Tires in Calgary?
02-27-2006, 08:00 PM
#21
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"Only better in deep,wet snow or slush" Ummmmmm yeah, its called winter driving !!
From Consumer reports
"Plus-sizing is popular for summer tires; plus-sizing means choosing a larger wheel size and corresponding tire than originally specified for your vehicle. For example, if your car specifies a wheel size of 16-inches, increasing wheel size by one inch would result in a 17-inch wheel, or 'Plus One' for your vehicle. The tire you buy will then need to have a shorter sidewall and wider tread to accommodate the same load and tire diameter.
Although many drivers are doing this for cosmetic reasons -- a larger wheel and narrower tire has a sportier look -- reviews say plus-sizing is a bad idea for winter tires. That's because wider tires must carve a wider path through snow; that means more resistance and drag. Instead, experts recommend using a narrow winter tire. Narrower tires can more easily cut a path through snow and slush. You can also "minus size" your original tire size by selecting a narrower tread and smaller wheel size. This can also save you some money, since narrower tires and smaller wheels are usually cheaper than wider tires with larger wheels."
BTW, Ice racers use the narrowest tire possible,unless of course if they're driving a FWD SAAB in which case they'd be shod with whatever YOU think is best !!
Why are you here ?
"Plus-sizing is popular for summer tires; plus-sizing means choosing a larger wheel size and corresponding tire than originally specified for your vehicle. For example, if your car specifies a wheel size of 16-inches, increasing wheel size by one inch would result in a 17-inch wheel, or 'Plus One' for your vehicle. The tire you buy will then need to have a shorter sidewall and wider tread to accommodate the same load and tire diameter.
Although many drivers are doing this for cosmetic reasons -- a larger wheel and narrower tire has a sportier look -- reviews say plus-sizing is a bad idea for winter tires. That's because wider tires must carve a wider path through snow; that means more resistance and drag. Instead, experts recommend using a narrow winter tire. Narrower tires can more easily cut a path through snow and slush. You can also "minus size" your original tire size by selecting a narrower tread and smaller wheel size. This can also save you some money, since narrower tires and smaller wheels are usually cheaper than wider tires with larger wheels."
BTW, Ice racers use the narrowest tire possible,unless of course if they're driving a FWD SAAB in which case they'd be shod with whatever YOU think is best !!
Why are you here ?
02-27-2006, 10:06 PM
#23
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"it is no longer necessary or even desirable to go back to smaller rims and taller tires for winter"
This is simply not true. Unless tire companies are changing the laws of physics, narrower tires are still more effective in the snow. The reason for this is that a narrower contact patch applies more pressure at each corner, so the tires dig into the snow and the tread blocks can do their job better. Other benefits to this design are that drag is reduced, and you're less likely to skid.
A wide tire acts more like a snowshoe; the larger contact patch distributes the weight over a greater area, resulting in less pressure, which keeps the tire on top of the snow where the tread blocks are pretty useless. There's also more drag against the tire, and you're more likely to lose control.
Take a look at a WRC car's snow tires sometime; they're extremely narrow, almost dangerous-looking. That wasn't an arbitrary choice - after exhaustive research, the teams found that narrow, tall-profile tires work best in ice and snow.
Now, I'm not saying that a wider snow tire won't work better than a stock-size all-season; it will, by virtue of its compound and tread pattern. But, a narrow snow tire will always be more effective than a wide one.
A wide tire acts more like a snowshoe; the larger contact patch distributes the weight over a greater area, resulting in less pressure, which keeps the tire on top of the snow where the tread blocks are pretty useless. There's also more drag against the tire, and you're more likely to lose control.
Take a look at a WRC car's snow tires sometime; they're extremely narrow, almost dangerous-looking. That wasn't an arbitrary choice - after exhaustive research, the teams found that narrow, tall-profile tires work best in ice and snow.
Now, I'm not saying that a wider snow tire won't work better than a stock-size all-season; it will, by virtue of its compound and tread pattern. But, a narrow snow tire will always be more effective than a wide one.
02-28-2006, 04:27 AM
#24
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Oh, let's not play this game, you're completely out of your element on this one.
Let us first qualify me as an expert.
This car:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/EVO.JPG">
was run in this configuration:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/dyno381.jpg">
(That's 381 horsepower to all 4 wheels)
at this venue:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/Evo3.bmp">
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/Evo2.bmp">
With both 17" 235/45/17 Blizzak WS-50 snow/ice tires AND 15" 195/65/15 Blizzak WS-50 snow/ice tires on the SAME DAY.
My personal observation from running this car at two separate venues of ICE driving (Team ONeill Rally Driving School in NH and Bridgestone Winter Driving School in CO) is that:
<big><big><big><B>The combination of the narrow tire and big sidewall DOES get you more traction on ice and snow, all other things being equal.</B></big></big></big>
(Only variable changed was tire sizing, the compounds are exactly the same, the car is exactly the same, even the rolling weight is within a lb or 2 at each corner.)
Sorry, but you've just been owned.
This car:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/EVO.JPG">
was run in this configuration:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/dyno381.jpg">
(That's 381 horsepower to all 4 wheels)
at this venue:
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/Evo3.bmp">
<img src="http://www.betterbuildingservices.com/evo/Evo2.bmp">
With both 17" 235/45/17 Blizzak WS-50 snow/ice tires AND 15" 195/65/15 Blizzak WS-50 snow/ice tires on the SAME DAY.
My personal observation from running this car at two separate venues of ICE driving (Team ONeill Rally Driving School in NH and Bridgestone Winter Driving School in CO) is that:
<big><big><big><B>The combination of the narrow tire and big sidewall DOES get you more traction on ice and snow, all other things being equal.</B></big></big></big>
(Only variable changed was tire sizing, the compounds are exactly the same, the car is exactly the same, even the rolling weight is within a lb or 2 at each corner.)
Sorry, but you've just been owned.
02-28-2006, 12:15 PM
#29
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For the type of winter we have in Cowtown, ie long stretches of dry roads,
the best compromise is probably the Pirelli SotoZero 210. I had the original 210s on my 01 S4 and was quite happy with them. The new SotoZero on the 06 S4 are far superior.
In independent test in Europe tires like the Nokian, Bridgestone and Gislaved were no match in normal day to day driving, in both dry and wet conditions, let alone snow or ice.
Tire technology moves at the same speed as Computers: Any model older than 3 years is obsolete..
In independent test in Europe tires like the Nokian, Bridgestone and Gislaved were no match in normal day to day driving, in both dry and wet conditions, let alone snow or ice.
Tire technology moves at the same speed as Computers: Any model older than 3 years is obsolete..
02-28-2006, 05:50 PM
#30
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Au contraire mon ami, winter IS my element
Would you post the comparative lap times please?
Now we're getting somewhere.
Your personal experience on a track somewhere in the US where winter is not well understood compared to the vast experience of a Western Canadian used to driving in the Rocky Mountains. Seems fair.
Oh yeah, you're an expert alright.
BTW, the Bridgestone WS 50 sucks big time compared to real winter tires, especially after the first two winters.
Nice car though, we can't get even the stock version in Canuck land, something to do with the horrendous damage to the intercooler if we hit someone in the Safeway parking lot. The B5 S4 doesn't wear foglights or decent headlights for this same reason. And it's those Yankees that thought of the dumb idea in the first place!
One question? Why the heck would you run Q rated tires on that monster? I'm surprised you could complete a lap, you must not have been going very fast. Try one of the newer, high speed winter tires next time, you might even get out of second gear.
Now we're getting somewhere.
Your personal experience on a track somewhere in the US where winter is not well understood compared to the vast experience of a Western Canadian used to driving in the Rocky Mountains. Seems fair.
Oh yeah, you're an expert alright.
BTW, the Bridgestone WS 50 sucks big time compared to real winter tires, especially after the first two winters.
Nice car though, we can't get even the stock version in Canuck land, something to do with the horrendous damage to the intercooler if we hit someone in the Safeway parking lot. The B5 S4 doesn't wear foglights or decent headlights for this same reason. And it's those Yankees that thought of the dumb idea in the first place!
One question? Why the heck would you run Q rated tires on that monster? I'm surprised you could complete a lap, you must not have been going very fast. Try one of the newer, high speed winter tires next time, you might even get out of second gear.