2005 Mini Cooper S vs. 99.5 Stage 3 A4 (aka, largely, what we already knew...)
07-20-2005, 11:13 PM
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2005 Mini Cooper S vs. 99.5 Stage 3 A4 (aka, largely, what we already knew...)
I haven't driven the A4 in a week or two but took it out tonight to stretch its legs. It really gave me a chance to step back and see it from a completely different viewpoint after driving the MCS for a week or so. Some thoughts follow...
Interior: The Mini interior part quality is complete junk. It's one of those interiors that looks nice (in a retro sort of comical way) from far, but when you actually start to manipulate the pieces inside, you realize where corners were cut. An Audi interior makes a BMW interior feel cheap, but a BMW interior makes a Mini interior feel like a Kia interior. It's bad...REALLY bad. There's not really a single interior component which does not disappoint. From the switchfeel of the radio/HVAC/etc to the tolerance on the fit of interior trim, this interior screams LOW QUALITY. I think it's bizarre how great the chassis is and how embarassing the interior components are. It's like mating a Lotus Elise with an Easy-Bake oven. :-(
Seats: The '97 A4 sport seats in my '99.5 A4 are the best street seats I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in, bar none. Honestly, they're perfect. Simple controls (fore and aft, height, and lumbar) yet the support and fabric is impeccable. The lateral support is incredible for an OEM sport sedan, the cloth is INCREDIBLY resilient to stains, foreign objects, etc, and the ergonomic form factor is PERFECT. I've not been more comfortable in a Lexus nor a Porsche. The Mini Cooper S seats, on the other hand, rate only a "Good" in my book. They're UNPERFORATED leatherette. It's not unlike wearing a diaper in extremely hot weather. :-/ That being said, the leatherette is not the slick, shiny, super-cheap feeling A4 stuff. It's softer, grippier, and a wee bit more realistic looking. I'm not a real leatherette fan anymore, and I might end up buying Wet Okole seat covers (or similar) or swapping out the front seats. We shall see...
Acceleration: Damn, even with the hot weather and the crappy conservative APR 93 octane programming, the A4 hauls *** compared to the Mini. If you get caught with your pants down, the A4 can make your face red, but we're talking about circa-2K RPM, and nobody has any business playing in that sandbox in either of these cars. So if you're on your toes and in the boost, then the APR Stage 3 A4 is wearing the belt, by a sympathy-inspring TKO margin. A plus for the Mini however - completely linear engine repsonse - usable torque from 2K, and 6th gear does not necessitate a downshift for passing.
Steering: Felt like I was driving a bus in the A4. Crappy, crappy, crappy. Numb on center and near-zero feedback. Lacking sharpness overall. A known weakness of the B5, no matter how you mod it. BIG strong point with the Mini - turn-in is instantaneous, the ratio is QUICK, and the wheel is meaty. Things happen fast...LOVE IT.
Handling: I always thought my A4 was ***-happy (as anyone who's seen me autocross with cold tires can surely attest) but I went out tonight on a fun run, after driving the Mini with the H-Sport bar in the rear for a few days, and try as I might, I could *not* get the rear end loose. It just required a much more violent lift then I was willing to provide in the city context after driving the Mini for a week. The MCS rotates on such a completely different axis as to inspire confidence even within the constrictive urban setting. It's like driving a scalpel. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! (that being said, I think I'm going to put the front H-Sport bar i to feel out the turnin-in versus oversteer balance)
Ride: I think at this point they're about the same. The Mini was DAMN stiff with the OEM runflat tires (those things have CRAZY stiff sidewalls, for obvious reasons) but it's toned down a lot with the Kumho MXs. The A4's H&R coilovers are still remarkably smooth in the ride department for a setup that performs so well at the track and autocross. It does give up a wee bit to the Mini's JCW suspension on the choppy city stuff though.
Brakes: Stoptechs on the A4 kick ***, period. I haven't molested the Mini's brakes yet, apart from some metal Caliper Guide Pins to replace the stock ones with rubber bushings. I have Hawk Blues en route for the track, and will be fabbing some brake ducting as well. I haven't really taken the chance to pound the Mini brakes with aplomb, so I suspect my opinion on this subject is not terribly valid.
Shifter: I have a Neuspeed short shifter on my A4, and have always felt very satisfied with it. A few years ago, an inctructor with a modified C5 Corvette told me that he really liked the feel of the shifter in my A4. That being said, the stock Mini shifter, even before modification (I have an Alta short shifter en route) feels much, MUCH more tight than the A4's. This is not a mileage issue, trust me. It's a completely different ballgame. The A4 feels floppy and indirect, despite the Neuspeed geometry alteration and 2+ inch height reduction.
Chassis: The 2005 MCS DESTROYS the B5 in chassis stiffness. OK, now that it's been said, is it merely age? I don't think so...
1. The MCS is nearly square - it's going to be more solid than a rectangular chassis, ceteris perebus.
2. BMW made this design incredibly beefy to deal with the safety fruitbags on this side of the pond. The car is an IIHS "Best bet" and got four stars from the NHTSA. That explains why it's 3 feet (!!!) shorter than the A4 but still weighs 2650 pounds.
3. Did I mention how stiff this thing is??? Despite the obviously inferior interior build quality compared to an Audi - no rattles, no squeaks, no nothing.
So long story short:
I love both cars. This contrast has given me a chance to expose the weaknesses of both vehicles. Unfortunately, I feel like they are both terminally damned (the A4 by weight and lack of chassis sharpness tuning, and the Mini by it's FWD format and subsequent hi-power traction limitation) but tweaking each is lots of fun.
Interior: The Mini interior part quality is complete junk. It's one of those interiors that looks nice (in a retro sort of comical way) from far, but when you actually start to manipulate the pieces inside, you realize where corners were cut. An Audi interior makes a BMW interior feel cheap, but a BMW interior makes a Mini interior feel like a Kia interior. It's bad...REALLY bad. There's not really a single interior component which does not disappoint. From the switchfeel of the radio/HVAC/etc to the tolerance on the fit of interior trim, this interior screams LOW QUALITY. I think it's bizarre how great the chassis is and how embarassing the interior components are. It's like mating a Lotus Elise with an Easy-Bake oven. :-(
Seats: The '97 A4 sport seats in my '99.5 A4 are the best street seats I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in, bar none. Honestly, they're perfect. Simple controls (fore and aft, height, and lumbar) yet the support and fabric is impeccable. The lateral support is incredible for an OEM sport sedan, the cloth is INCREDIBLY resilient to stains, foreign objects, etc, and the ergonomic form factor is PERFECT. I've not been more comfortable in a Lexus nor a Porsche. The Mini Cooper S seats, on the other hand, rate only a "Good" in my book. They're UNPERFORATED leatherette. It's not unlike wearing a diaper in extremely hot weather. :-/ That being said, the leatherette is not the slick, shiny, super-cheap feeling A4 stuff. It's softer, grippier, and a wee bit more realistic looking. I'm not a real leatherette fan anymore, and I might end up buying Wet Okole seat covers (or similar) or swapping out the front seats. We shall see...
Acceleration: Damn, even with the hot weather and the crappy conservative APR 93 octane programming, the A4 hauls *** compared to the Mini. If you get caught with your pants down, the A4 can make your face red, but we're talking about circa-2K RPM, and nobody has any business playing in that sandbox in either of these cars. So if you're on your toes and in the boost, then the APR Stage 3 A4 is wearing the belt, by a sympathy-inspring TKO margin. A plus for the Mini however - completely linear engine repsonse - usable torque from 2K, and 6th gear does not necessitate a downshift for passing.
Steering: Felt like I was driving a bus in the A4. Crappy, crappy, crappy. Numb on center and near-zero feedback. Lacking sharpness overall. A known weakness of the B5, no matter how you mod it. BIG strong point with the Mini - turn-in is instantaneous, the ratio is QUICK, and the wheel is meaty. Things happen fast...LOVE IT.
Handling: I always thought my A4 was ***-happy (as anyone who's seen me autocross with cold tires can surely attest) but I went out tonight on a fun run, after driving the Mini with the H-Sport bar in the rear for a few days, and try as I might, I could *not* get the rear end loose. It just required a much more violent lift then I was willing to provide in the city context after driving the Mini for a week. The MCS rotates on such a completely different axis as to inspire confidence even within the constrictive urban setting. It's like driving a scalpel. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! (that being said, I think I'm going to put the front H-Sport bar i to feel out the turnin-in versus oversteer balance)
Ride: I think at this point they're about the same. The Mini was DAMN stiff with the OEM runflat tires (those things have CRAZY stiff sidewalls, for obvious reasons) but it's toned down a lot with the Kumho MXs. The A4's H&R coilovers are still remarkably smooth in the ride department for a setup that performs so well at the track and autocross. It does give up a wee bit to the Mini's JCW suspension on the choppy city stuff though.
Brakes: Stoptechs on the A4 kick ***, period. I haven't molested the Mini's brakes yet, apart from some metal Caliper Guide Pins to replace the stock ones with rubber bushings. I have Hawk Blues en route for the track, and will be fabbing some brake ducting as well. I haven't really taken the chance to pound the Mini brakes with aplomb, so I suspect my opinion on this subject is not terribly valid.
Shifter: I have a Neuspeed short shifter on my A4, and have always felt very satisfied with it. A few years ago, an inctructor with a modified C5 Corvette told me that he really liked the feel of the shifter in my A4. That being said, the stock Mini shifter, even before modification (I have an Alta short shifter en route) feels much, MUCH more tight than the A4's. This is not a mileage issue, trust me. It's a completely different ballgame. The A4 feels floppy and indirect, despite the Neuspeed geometry alteration and 2+ inch height reduction.
Chassis: The 2005 MCS DESTROYS the B5 in chassis stiffness. OK, now that it's been said, is it merely age? I don't think so...
1. The MCS is nearly square - it's going to be more solid than a rectangular chassis, ceteris perebus.
2. BMW made this design incredibly beefy to deal with the safety fruitbags on this side of the pond. The car is an IIHS "Best bet" and got four stars from the NHTSA. That explains why it's 3 feet (!!!) shorter than the A4 but still weighs 2650 pounds.
3. Did I mention how stiff this thing is??? Despite the obviously inferior interior build quality compared to an Audi - no rattles, no squeaks, no nothing.
So long story short:
I love both cars. This contrast has given me a chance to expose the weaknesses of both vehicles. Unfortunately, I feel like they are both terminally damned (the A4 by weight and lack of chassis sharpness tuning, and the Mini by it's FWD format and subsequent hi-power traction limitation) but tweaking each is lots of fun.
07-21-2005, 06:04 AM
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Nice write up...one note though...I bet your shifter linkage bushings in th A4 are toast and thus ..
sloppy feel...I may be wrong but I know when I swapped just the shifter housing on my old 90, it was 8yrs old at the time, with a short shifter setup, just that ball(in this case was plastic) was so worn out it had at least 3-4 mm of lateral play...and that's a hell lot for a shifter...new short shift kit made it feel like new.
Now, I think Neuspees SS kits are all metal so I am suspecting its your linkage bushings, maybe not.
Now, I think Neuspees SS kits are all metal so I am suspecting its your linkage bushings, maybe not.
07-22-2005, 07:15 AM
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Nice review. One question though, how often do you wear a daiper
in hot weather?
Not that I really want to know of course, but I'm not sure if you meant it as a bad thing or a good thing...
Not that I really want to know of course, but I'm not sure if you meant it as a bad thing or a good thing...
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