Tomasz@Startup

For me, there is no going back.

squidix9

It's an old compound, and it won't bite until hot either.

The next level down is the new DS2500 it's supposed to bite a bit more when cold.

The replacement for the DS-11 is the new DS3000. Like the DS-11 it won't bite cold, but it'll work great once it gets hot, and thus is a great race pad, if you can manage to get it hot enough.

It's good for track days when you have a couple of turns to work them up, but they're not good for SoloII since you don't really have a chance to take some extra turns.

I have both Porterfield's and Ferodo's in both of those compounds.

NoahD

They bite fine with slightly warm (not great when real cold, but a nice crossover pad). Of course, the Mini is *light* and I don't brake much in it on the track ;-)

I don't think the 2500s will do as well on a heavy car like an Audi or Galant VR4.

squidix9

I've had trouble with the DS-11's for autoX, they just don't get hot enough to really work. On a fairly hot day, and maybe into the 2nd run they start to grip. For rallyX they're much better, only bacause I can run a lot more open and get them hot sooner. Plus each time I've run it's been pretty hot outside too.

The DS2500's grip sooner, but once hot they're not as good as the DS-11's.

My 90 is just 1130kg and the Coupe is 1166kg.

Unfortuntely I don't have a lot of choices for compounds, there just isn't that much available anymore. I had to special order the DS2500's directly from Italy and they took quite awhile to come in. Porterfield will custom make them but they charge a fortune to make them because the compound is so tough that they have to use special cutting techniques to do it, or at least that is what they toldme when I spoke to them. They have to take a similar pad and then cut it down.

mirth

1. don't expect your car to brake like mine until you're using track tires. The available grip plays a big role.

2. Something else to consider when you're thinking about track pads is what they'll do to your car's paint. Some pads, such as hawk blues, can be very caustic. The HT-10s have a better reputation.

3. Some pads are also known for leaving deposits on the rotors, causing shudder under braking when they're not hot. PF pads were worse in this respect in my experience, but I only ran the PF90s. They were great pads otherwise.

4. Ultimately, the pads you choose are probably going to be the result of trying lots of things, and finding out what characteristics you like best. You may also want to run different pads front and rear; next season, for example, I'm not going to run the HT-10s in the rear because I thought it gave the braking too much rear bias, which made trailbraking much harder.

Question: I don't remember... were your problems with bite toward the beginning of the session, or near the end?

s4wood

The ones with the most bite were the Hawk Blues..IMHO. They are all decent..I just happen to be using Pagid Orange now...btw, that reminds me..I better take them off the car and put back on the Axxis Metalmasters for the street..thanks for reminding me. :-)

CP

I want to say this was happening at the end of those two sessions when I experienced it, BUT...

it was only at those two turns before coming onto the front straight (NHIS), which isn't a very heavy braking area at the speeds I was running. If you remember, I didn't like the initial bite I was getting there (Porterfield R4), but there wasn't much of a chance of brake fade that day, so I don't think boiling fluid was the issue. I saw flurries in the air a few times around lunchtime.

I'm going to talk to someone at Hawk and see what they recommend for my setup, which as you mentioned does not include race tires, and probably won't for another few years. I was using my street pads in the rear all last summer, and wasn't getting much rear lockup, but then again maybe I'm not braking hard enough for that. Beats me...you're the instructor. I'm just a beginner ;^) Pagid Orange's are on the radar as well.

I'm hoping to have you riding along with me a few more times this season...

CP

it happened a few times during my last two sessions, near the end of them. This was for braking into Turn 10. But there's no real heavy braking in the turns before that, unless you consider the downhill turn heavy braking. So again, I don't think this was an issue of fade. I think it may have been the cold temps, and the fact that there isn't alot of heavy braking before those turns. I think you definitely had the right idea blocking your brake ducts off that day. Maybe mine were cooling off too fast so the pads weren't up to temp?

Either way, I'm getting new pads for the front and rear, as one of the front pads wore unevenly and I don't want to continue to use it next season.

I'm doing some other little things before the spring to better prepare the car for track events. External oil cooler, and some suspension pieces in the rear in order to eliminate the "active rear toe" that all 1G DSMs have from the factory. I also may or may not have a harness bar and harnesses since we decided that those torso belts weren't very safe.

O.W. Kenobi

Stay away from Hawk Blues, though. The dust is unmanageable (it'll ruin your wheels).

mirth

my money is still on fade; the reason you noticed it there could be because you didn't have as much time to compensate with more pedal pressure. If excessive cooling were the issue, you would noticed it throughout the session.

but that's just conjecture.

Try some different pads. See how they work.

About other prep: stuff like oil coolers never hurts. If I had your car and I wanted to keep it relatively, stock, my next change would be a good set of 4-pt harnesses with anti-submarining stiching. I'm not a big fan of harness bars, but I don't know enough to say they're inherently a bad thing. Ask the people at HMS motorsport.