Todd W

A while back, while debating the usefulness of Loti with ChuckH, you talked about cars that are easy to find cheap parts for. I want something that is pretty decent on the track for driver's schools (I have moved up to yellow on a green-blue-yellow-red scale in terms of run groups with my 5KTQ on street tires and 15" rims), yet about a year or so old so I don't have to fix it all the time.

There was a '99 Mustang Cobra at the track event this weekend which seemed like a good bang-for-the-buck argument. It also is palatable at well under $25K slightly used. However, it is still a little heavy and may not be enough faster than my sedan. My sedan surprised more than a few people this weekend. It took a really good driver in a modified M3 on slicks to creep away from me.

What other cars would you suggest? The advantages are cheap parts, easy to work on, and lots of dealers/shops around. Whatever car I would get would be noticeably on the track side of dual-use. I still have the old sedan which will haul 4 large people cross-country in style. Nonetheless, I can't spend that much for something that I can't drive regularly or have to work on much (that nixes the Caterham that I love so much).

Thanks,

Todd W

Cameron

If you're in the Mustang market and don't mind something that looks a little less modern (e.g. no jagged edges), there are some Saleen SR's making their way onto the market (old bodystyle) with high mileage and $25k-$28k price tags. Plenty fast, Alcon brakes, decent suspension...

Other suggestion is an '89 911 track car that may be coming onto the market @ $20k & is owned by a friend of the family. Already has a cage & 993T brakes but needs a suspension and some loving attention from someone with fiberglass skills. Has seen the walls at SIR and PIR up close but has been fixed well. Car is in Seattle and has been driven in rain (but responsibly), female MSFT owner in her early thirties with a speed yellow 996 Turbo on order and a fading interest in track cars. One owner, car was a drive-to-work ride until '96. Will tell you if it goes on the market...

Todd B. Serota (LA)

Assuming you're talking about an '89 3.2 liter Carrera, as opposed to an '89 964 Carrera 4 (the first year for the 964, which has the 3.6 liter twin plug engine, among other differences), generally speaking, this would make an excellent track car, with the right modifications. However, as to the particular one you're talking about, if I were looking at it, I'd sure want to know exactly how hard it saw the walls at PIR and SIR. It's really easy to tweak the frame on a glancing impact, and if that happened, I wouldn't want the car, essentially at any price. If Todd considers this car, he should have it checked out very closely on a top notch frame jig, to see if the frame was ever bent and straightened.

Todd Serota
tserota@primenet.com (law firm and home)
tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business)
tserota@tracquest.net (high speed driver education)

Todd W

My fist thought is what Todd Serota brings up about the frame. Fiberglass and suspension are no problem. A solid reliable car that can be driven with some regularity is a must. Pretty is not (or I would rule out the 'egdy' new mustang). As for the Saleens, I have a strong preference for IRS, but I would have to drive one.

Thanks,

Todd W

p.s. Know any single women in their late twenties with a growing interest in track cars??? %^}

Cameron

... if you want to go the Mustang route.

BTW, the 911 did not have frame damage, just shattered panels, but it is NOT street legal in its present incarnation :-( according to the owner.

On the Mustangs, there's a good site listing retrofit options/costs/labor/considerations on the IRS retrofit. I'll see if I can track it down for you. A used mid-90's Mustang with a retrofit (if you don't care about class reg's) would be a great bang-for-the-buck track car...

Cameron

John/TSR

...but I was off the planet for 10 days and hadn't looked this far down the board.

Late model Mustangs seem to have a penchant for overheating if driven hard. No solid data, just my wild-*** observations. Camaro's with the LT-1 motor are very impressive, but I've heard of some rear end problems. Early M3's are bullet-proof track beaters and can be found for $10-15K in great condx. Depending on your mechanical abilities, any of these can be expensive to live with.

Why go for that much horsepower ? More power doesn't teach you how to drive, it just burns more gas and teaches you how to overheat your brakes. Learn to go fast with no power, and you'll have a valuable skill set. VW GTi's, Nissan SE-R's and the like are C-H-E-A-P to buy and live with, and you can beat on them mercilessly and they still be waiting with their tails wagging. You'll get the most out of a $3-5K track beater, and if you crash it or blow it up, you haven't mortgaged your future for it.

Regardless of what you buy, if it's gonna see a lot of track time, put a good cage in
it and make sure you take advantage of all the GOOD instruction you can get. Too many people are in a rush to be "signed-off" for solo and then plateau their skill development. Clue: even Pro School instructors ride with each other for feedback.

Todd W

Nor do I expect to spend every other weekend at the track. The issue is to find something reliable that I can continue to learn how to drive with, yet is faster around the track than my sedan - without coilovers or R-compound tires. I would also like to be able to improve the car as my skills improve.

It must hold TWO large people, i.e. me and an instructor. A roll bar is very likely, and a cage is a possibility depending on if I have to worry about resale. I really want the handling characteristics of a RWD, my quattro handles just like a FWD and I want some variety. I still plan to take the big white boat to the track once in a while.

My favorite would be a Caterham, but I don't fit in it and you really can't drive it on the street much. I just want something light and simple, that handles great on the track but can be driven with some regularity on the street. I know that it is a lot to ask. My mechanical skills are excellent, but I don't want to be pulling a whole string of late-nighters getting the damned thing ready before each track event.

If I can't get a loan on it with good terms, like a $15K used car, then I can't swing it. I already have an UrQ, so no point trading that in just to rebuild something else. I am willing to take out a loan in order to have something that I can just hop in and take to the track.

I hadn't thought about the SE-R. I did see one grenade the engine at Lime Rock, but I think he was driving around at track speeds in first and second. I had thought about a 914, but the tracks that I have been on are pretty big and open. You start to snore with a badly underpowered car. My average speed in a large 4-door sedan on 15" street tires was 77mph, without ever going over 115mph. Total vehicle weight was probably 3700lbs with about 260hp and weak brakes.

Thanks again,

Todd W

John/TSR

...trust me on this one. I've seen people waste a year or two keeping a 914 street and track ready, only to have continual problems. Find something modern.

A bolt-in roll cage, as used in some SCCA Showroom Stock and Improved Touring cars, won't hurt resale. Just unbolt it and spooge some goo into the mounting holes when you're ready to sell it.

If you want RWD, how about a late model Mazda Miata ? Still the killer car in SCCA SSB, nice street car, very track-able with a full cage and the optional hard top (if you're gonna track it GET THE HARDTOP). The top comes off, just like a Caterham (and it won't leak when it's on.....but of course it never rains in Britain so how would Caterham know ?) Banks will be very happy to finance it, as opposed to a Caterham or something else weird that will make their loan officers crazy. An experienced driver in an SSB Miata can humiliate nearly everyone on track. They also seem to be killer reliable. Nissan sedans are the same way. Find something with an SR-20 motor. Personal experience is that they cannot be harmed unless stuffed into a wall at 75 mph.

Toyotas, on the other hand, seem to suffer from EXTREMELY SCARY high parts prices. Although they look zoomy, don't even consider an MR-2. They don't crash well and they're a bitch to fix.

Now that I think about it, I should have had a Miata long ago. I wonder if there's any space left in my driveway ?

JW

Todd W

I can drive one, but not with the top up. Otherwise it would be a winner. I will have to look into the Nissans, I have never ridden in an SE-R. What do you think about the RX-7? I think that I don't fit, and the newer more reliable ones are too expensive. Do you agree?

Todd W