I can't stop apexing!
02-25-2001, 05:50 PM
#1
AudiWorld Expert
Thread Starter
I can't stop apexing!
Full report on TWS to follow tomorrow, but in short, the S4 on Kumho's ROCKS! Lots of drifting, trail braking, and a few mistakes even, added up to a 2:08.6 lap for me with stock suspension and stock ECU. Ryan in his TT225 Coupe was probably within a half second or so of that time on Hoosiers. We were lapping together the last half of today, and going freaking FAST! After running this time, I think breaking 2:07 with my setup is very feasible if I get a real good lap all of the way around.
02-26-2001, 10:10 AM
#3
AudiWorld Expert
Thread Starter
Full TWS report (a little bit long):
Pete and I caravaned up early Friday afternoon. We arrived at TWS at 3, and beat Rick (who was running the event) there. By the time Rick arrived, it had started to rain some and our ideas of helping set up the track and slalom area dissipated, so we went back and checked in to the motels. The Days Inn blows bigtime -- the rooms smelled some, were hot even with the "air conditioner" on (and in room refrigerator open no less), had beds that bowed to the floor when you sat on them, and even a dirty, splattered and stained shower. Next time we all need to stay in the new Best Western in Navasota. We were wondering how wet it would be Saturday. Thunderstorms were in the forecast for overnight.
When we awoke, it had rained during the night, but not heavily. We were still under the threat of rain at the track early in the morning, but it mostly held off, with showers coming twice for a few minutes each. Since the track was wet, I started out on my PZero Rossos. I was going pretty slow and still sliding a lot, and some parts of the track were very slippery, like turn 5 where you have to trail brake a little and try and rotate the car at turn in just a little. I was clearly lacking the skill and comfort level to do this in the wet. There was also a big puddle at the "track out" of turn 15 leading onto the 2600' front straight (14-15 are S-curves). Some of the RWD cars were trying to stay to the inside of that puddle, probably scrubbing some and not getting full speed. Combined with the S-curves still being just a bit damp, quattro ruled the morning that day, as I would just plant my two right tires right in the middle of the puddle and zip right by more powerful cars coming out of the S-curves (e.g., Camaro SS, supercharged Cobra, and lots of Panteras).
OK, now about the Panteras...well the Pantera club basically showed up. A bunch of older guys who'd never run with this driving school before, and were thrown all around between red, yellow, blue and green groups. By the time you make it to yellow (intermediate), you are supposed to know what you're doing, even if you don't do it very good all of the time. About half of yellow group was authorized to solo going into the event (myself included). Anyway, these were straight-line drivers, in somewhat straight line cars, but they had a lot of horsepower, and a lot of EGO. For most of the first day, passing them was damn near impossible in all run groups. They wouldn't even give passing signals to cars that would just about have their front wheels even with the Pantera's rear wheels on the inside of the corner and gaining on them. Passing flags were ignored as well. But eventually they got the message. I don't even want to talk about how SLOW some of these Panteras were being driven in corners. I mean they were being driven about as fast around some of the corners as first time drivers go in green group with their helmets off on the first session of the day. In yellow group, I caught one turning onto T6 at ~48mph (I think I enter it around 65, but I have no real idea). I also caught one turning onto T2 at ~57mph (I enter it around 80mph), and that same one tried to drag race me (I had just come down the front straight into T1 at ~100mph) as he left the pit lane. He pulled in front of me doing about 80, then hit the brakes for T1 to that ~57mph. I could have probably pulled off a pass through the apex of turn 2 he was going so slow, and of course, he didn't let me pass for the next 3 passing zones even though I was moving left and right behind him THROUGH the corners that led onto the straights.
OK, enough about the Panteras in my group, let me tell you about the ones in Red group. I went for a ride with an instructor in his race-prepped 944 Turbo. The instructor does pretty good in club racing, and drives the **** out of his 944. He can run in the mid-1:50's there (I think) so I was up for a ride, especially since I knew he drove the T1 & T2 faster than just about anybody at the track, and those were my worst corners on the track. They're so high speed and so long that I would give up a couple seconds each lap just in those two corners, and would feel bad about passing anybody on the front straight because I knew they'd catch me in T1 & T2 (but then I'd pull away for the rest of the course). Anyway, we go out and are just blowing past cars, drifting and trail braking through most of the corners on the course, and we catch another Red group driver in a new M5 that had caught a Pantera, who was about a 100 yards behind another Pantera. These were both "racing" Panteras, meaning lots of HP, roll cage, stripped interior, etc. They were driving through the corners at about the same speed as I did on my street tires in my stock S4 -- probably 10+ seconds/lap too slow for the fast cars in red group. A train built up for a full lap, and the first Pantera finally saw some of the passing flags, and we got by it. Then the M5, followed behind by us, caught the lead Pantera in about 5 seconds. This thing was probably the fourth fastest straight line car there behind the 777hp King Snake Viper, old 911 GT1, and old Trans-Am series Camaro, having an estimated 600hp. The M5 would be all over its *** through the corners, and then the Pantera would hit the front straight and pull about a 150' lead on the M5 two-thirds of the way down the straight, and then take some kind of high line into T1, probably slowing down to 100mph to take the transition, but the M5 would stay on the gas, take a low line, and be even with the Pantera at turn in for T1, but the Pantera would keep on slowing and not let it pass. Once the Pantera slowed to 67mph to enter T2. This kept up for a total of FIVE 2.9 mile laps. The Pantera ignored about 7-8 passing flags (I was pointing at the Pantera out the passenger window as we would pass corner workers), and the M5 was getting ready to pass it in just about every corner of the track, but the M5 didn't force it. Coming out of T2 for the last 3 laps, the M5 would cut under the Pantera, put his left turn signal on and run up by the side of the Pantera, and the Pantera would just hammer it. Anyway, we got in, and the chief instructor had a little chat with the Pantera owner in question. Turns out he had no turn signals and closed plexiglass windows, so he couldn't ever give a pass signal, but he never even did it through the rear glass or lifted or moved off line on any straight. He also insisted he didn't need an instructor to teach him anything, and he drove like absolute ****!, but he didn't even have a passenger seat so he couldn't anyway. I'm pretty confident his 600hp race car never turned a lap below the 2:08.6 I eventually did in a 3550 lb. 260hp street car on stock suspension. In short, the Pantera owners as a whole made a real bad name for themselves on the track, and I wouldn't be too surprised if they're not back with our group again, even if they did start letting people pass on Sunday, after the grid marshall would ask every driver of every car if he knew what this flag (holding the blue/yellow passing flag) meant, and getting an answer (my answer was it means hopefully I get to pass the Pantera on the next straight that I've been stuck behind for the last lap).
All right, enough about the Panteras. After lunch Saturday, the skies cleared, sun came out, and I decided it was time to put on the Kumho Victoracers for a dry track. Rob Andrews helped me do the change (THANKS!), as I needed to bleed my brakes too since I didn't do anything to them since running at Texas Motor Speedway in December. We also put the Hawk blue pads back in the AP Racing calipers up front and swapped my rotors left to right (we had mounted them reversed -- DOH! Thanks, Don P.; rotors with directional vents should be mounted with the idea that air will enter the middle of the rotor at the hub, and be centripitally moved toward the outside of the rotor as the wheel turns).
Anyway, our group was heading out by the time we were finishing up the work, and we both missed 5-6 minutes of our third run group of the day. I figured it was time to get fast around the track since it was dry, but that would require me to not always brake in a straight line, and to drift, which I had not been doing in the morning. With the race pads up front and Kumhos on the car, it would get real squirmy under braking, and my confidence was shaken. Toward the end of the run group, I realized I hadn't checked tire pressure when I went out, and that the last time these were on the car was for an autocross, so the pressure was likely too high, and when I checked in the paddock after I pulled in, sure enough I was about 48-49psi in each tire (hot), so I let about 7-8 pounds out of each tire, to get 41F/40R (hot).
I also went and asked for an instructor to come with me on my last run group of the day. All in all I wasn't in the zone on Saturday at all. The rain and tire change had me distracted, and I wasn't focused on the track, consistently turning in too late for some of the corners, or turning in too abruptly. I got a guy who drives a Viper to instruct me, and he of course noted I was going in too hot to the corners and not looking through the turn a lot of the times (true), but he also told me I needed to trail brake in lots of places and rotate the car, and got my back on the line in T5 (yes, you actually apex there, not drive on the outside, which a lot of cars in our group weren't and seeing so many people doing it was messing me up), so I could trail brake and rotate into T6, trail brake and rotate into T8, trail brake and rotate into T13, and confirmed that I should take the low line into T1 from the front straight, saying it saves him a full second/lap in a Viper, and that he can go into T1 at 160mph in it, then trail brake to the turn in for T2, rotate a little and hammer it through T2. The pointers helped a lot, and felt like Sunday would be a good day for me.
Sunday morning rolls around and the weather's great. Clearing skies, and temperatures that start in the high 50's and make it to about 80 in the afternoon. Today, we try and get a few Audis out on the track in line in yellow group. Ryan E. in his TT225 Coupe (on Hoosiers), and Todd W. in his new 1.8T Avant (on a special APR 100 octane program), as well as a couple other Audis went out. I started driving fast, but was still making mistakes that hurt me on lap times. Me, Ryan and Todd started booking at a pretty good clip together. Todd in his 1.8T Avant on the juice could just about keep up with my stock ECU+exhausted S4 on the straights, with me able to get 122-123 (4th gear rev limiter) at the end of the front straight, and Todd able to crack 115, but I would just barely pull the 1.8T until we got past 100mph, and the front straight was the only place on the track to do that. On the second lap of the first run group, I was following Ryan into Turn 4, and Todd was behind me. We had caught a Pantera who was being given a passing flag by the corner worker. Ryan was gearing up to have lots of exit speed on the Pantera for the short straight between T4-T5, and closing on the Pantera when it spun right at the apex of 4. Ryan was on the brakes and about to go wide of the Pantera when the Pantera backed up (at the end of the spin), and Ryan was suddenly full into ABS so as to not T-bone the Pantera. I slowed to about 25mph and just went right around the mess in the grass, waving for letting me pass of course, and continued about the rest of the run.
Second run group was much the same with Ryan, Todd and myself (note: Todd was on S-02 PP's), except that I was in front of the others, right behind two yellow Z06's. I had stuck like glue to the back of one through T1 & T2, but had turned in late to T3, so the Z06 opened up some ground heading into T4. Obviously feeling the pressure from that "blue menace in his review" he likely gave it a little too much throttle in T4 and spun too, ending up outside of the apex in the grass. I slowed to about 30-35 and passed him, waving of course, but I was a little upset due to the variation in my line and turned in too late for T6, and ran wide on track out. Since I early apexed there once and went 4 wheels off last year, I figured no biggie if I do it again, so I went off the track (I really thought I could do it and only get 2 wheels off, but I didn't), and let off the gas a little, carefully but quickly worked back on to the track and took off down the straight. The corner worker couldn't even tell I got 4 off so no black flag for me (yay!), although Todd was wondering if I did since he got to drive through my dust cloud.
We observed the M5 guy again out on the track. That is a spectacular machine. He was driving the **** out of it. We saw him power drift for a third of the way down the straightaway between T11-T12, when a bad line in T10 caused him to miss the apex of T11. Based on this and my observations from behind while in the 944 Turbo, I have no doubt that if the new M3 is anything like the new M5, us S4 owners will have our hands more than full when that is driven in the hands of a competent driver. The E36 M3's however this day, weren't much for me to worry about, although a yellow one was running even with me on Sunday morning. I don't think he was quite up to my lap times that I posted Sunday afternoon though.
A few Audi guys showed up to spectate at lunch, and for the third session, I was feeling like it was time to start going for some fast laps. Ryan and I started lapping together, and were pretty much kickin' *** and takin' names. We got a lap in the 2:11-2:12 range, and were turning consistent 2:13-2:15's. I was turning into T1 at ~115mph (after giving a slight tap from 123 on the straight), and trailbraking and drifting my way towards the T2 turn in from that point forward. Ryan told me he wished he had video from behind of me going through there, because it was a sight to see. When we got in, we were glad to see these lap times, and decided the last run of the day we were going to go out and get a 2:10. Well after doing a little more drifting, I turned a 2:08.6 and pretty much couldn't believe it. Ryan was pretty much hanging with me, but I was just a tick faster on my fastest lap, so he probably got a 2:09.1 or so. I still left time on the track on this lap. I can still go into T1 hotter (and drift and trail brake a little more), be a little more rotated at the turn in for T2, turn in a little slower for T3 (to be faster down the next straight), turn in sooner and slower for T4 (to be on the power through most of the turn), rotate more and be a little slower at turn in for T6, just go faster through T7 (need to try 95mph once), slow throught the carousel (T10) a little to be in the optimum position to put power down before turn in for T11, and get set up in T13 better, so I can turn into T14 quicker so I can start the drag race down the front straight and not enounter tire scrub through T15. So I think I'm still leaving a good 2-3 seconds on the course out there.
Also, a final note. Drifting and trail braking is not something you should be doing when learning your S4. It has only been a year since my first track event, and I feel like I've got the hang of it pretty good. I had only driven at TWS twice before, once for a full weekend, and once only for one run session before my turbos blew. Drifting and trail braking on street tires seemed much harder to do than on track tires. Street tires don't seem to have that momentary instance of super traction that track tires do, and that super traction is often what helps rotate the car at turn in points (IMO). This was all done on the stock suspension. The S4's suspension DOES NOT need upgrading for any novice and most intermediate drivers. Learn to drive the S4 on the stock suspension. It is an incredible car. You are not an intermediate driver until you have been to several track events, and are doing good in the intermediate group. Please go learn to drive before you touch your suspension.
I am ready to finally upgrade my suspension, and my mind should probably be made up in April what I'll do. It will be a while before I move up to the advanced group though. Half of the cars in Red are dedicated track cars. The other half are fast cars driven by people who race or have raced before.
Also, the outside of my Kumho's wore bigtime (although there's still a few track events in them). Is there any camber adjustments we can do the S4 at all without replacing the links? Will an aftermarket suspension affect camber?
Did I leave anything out? ;-P
When we awoke, it had rained during the night, but not heavily. We were still under the threat of rain at the track early in the morning, but it mostly held off, with showers coming twice for a few minutes each. Since the track was wet, I started out on my PZero Rossos. I was going pretty slow and still sliding a lot, and some parts of the track were very slippery, like turn 5 where you have to trail brake a little and try and rotate the car at turn in just a little. I was clearly lacking the skill and comfort level to do this in the wet. There was also a big puddle at the "track out" of turn 15 leading onto the 2600' front straight (14-15 are S-curves). Some of the RWD cars were trying to stay to the inside of that puddle, probably scrubbing some and not getting full speed. Combined with the S-curves still being just a bit damp, quattro ruled the morning that day, as I would just plant my two right tires right in the middle of the puddle and zip right by more powerful cars coming out of the S-curves (e.g., Camaro SS, supercharged Cobra, and lots of Panteras).
OK, now about the Panteras...well the Pantera club basically showed up. A bunch of older guys who'd never run with this driving school before, and were thrown all around between red, yellow, blue and green groups. By the time you make it to yellow (intermediate), you are supposed to know what you're doing, even if you don't do it very good all of the time. About half of yellow group was authorized to solo going into the event (myself included). Anyway, these were straight-line drivers, in somewhat straight line cars, but they had a lot of horsepower, and a lot of EGO. For most of the first day, passing them was damn near impossible in all run groups. They wouldn't even give passing signals to cars that would just about have their front wheels even with the Pantera's rear wheels on the inside of the corner and gaining on them. Passing flags were ignored as well. But eventually they got the message. I don't even want to talk about how SLOW some of these Panteras were being driven in corners. I mean they were being driven about as fast around some of the corners as first time drivers go in green group with their helmets off on the first session of the day. In yellow group, I caught one turning onto T6 at ~48mph (I think I enter it around 65, but I have no real idea). I also caught one turning onto T2 at ~57mph (I enter it around 80mph), and that same one tried to drag race me (I had just come down the front straight into T1 at ~100mph) as he left the pit lane. He pulled in front of me doing about 80, then hit the brakes for T1 to that ~57mph. I could have probably pulled off a pass through the apex of turn 2 he was going so slow, and of course, he didn't let me pass for the next 3 passing zones even though I was moving left and right behind him THROUGH the corners that led onto the straights.
OK, enough about the Panteras in my group, let me tell you about the ones in Red group. I went for a ride with an instructor in his race-prepped 944 Turbo. The instructor does pretty good in club racing, and drives the **** out of his 944. He can run in the mid-1:50's there (I think) so I was up for a ride, especially since I knew he drove the T1 & T2 faster than just about anybody at the track, and those were my worst corners on the track. They're so high speed and so long that I would give up a couple seconds each lap just in those two corners, and would feel bad about passing anybody on the front straight because I knew they'd catch me in T1 & T2 (but then I'd pull away for the rest of the course). Anyway, we go out and are just blowing past cars, drifting and trail braking through most of the corners on the course, and we catch another Red group driver in a new M5 that had caught a Pantera, who was about a 100 yards behind another Pantera. These were both "racing" Panteras, meaning lots of HP, roll cage, stripped interior, etc. They were driving through the corners at about the same speed as I did on my street tires in my stock S4 -- probably 10+ seconds/lap too slow for the fast cars in red group. A train built up for a full lap, and the first Pantera finally saw some of the passing flags, and we got by it. Then the M5, followed behind by us, caught the lead Pantera in about 5 seconds. This thing was probably the fourth fastest straight line car there behind the 777hp King Snake Viper, old 911 GT1, and old Trans-Am series Camaro, having an estimated 600hp. The M5 would be all over its *** through the corners, and then the Pantera would hit the front straight and pull about a 150' lead on the M5 two-thirds of the way down the straight, and then take some kind of high line into T1, probably slowing down to 100mph to take the transition, but the M5 would stay on the gas, take a low line, and be even with the Pantera at turn in for T1, but the Pantera would keep on slowing and not let it pass. Once the Pantera slowed to 67mph to enter T2. This kept up for a total of FIVE 2.9 mile laps. The Pantera ignored about 7-8 passing flags (I was pointing at the Pantera out the passenger window as we would pass corner workers), and the M5 was getting ready to pass it in just about every corner of the track, but the M5 didn't force it. Coming out of T2 for the last 3 laps, the M5 would cut under the Pantera, put his left turn signal on and run up by the side of the Pantera, and the Pantera would just hammer it. Anyway, we got in, and the chief instructor had a little chat with the Pantera owner in question. Turns out he had no turn signals and closed plexiglass windows, so he couldn't ever give a pass signal, but he never even did it through the rear glass or lifted or moved off line on any straight. He also insisted he didn't need an instructor to teach him anything, and he drove like absolute ****!, but he didn't even have a passenger seat so he couldn't anyway. I'm pretty confident his 600hp race car never turned a lap below the 2:08.6 I eventually did in a 3550 lb. 260hp street car on stock suspension. In short, the Pantera owners as a whole made a real bad name for themselves on the track, and I wouldn't be too surprised if they're not back with our group again, even if they did start letting people pass on Sunday, after the grid marshall would ask every driver of every car if he knew what this flag (holding the blue/yellow passing flag) meant, and getting an answer (my answer was it means hopefully I get to pass the Pantera on the next straight that I've been stuck behind for the last lap).
All right, enough about the Panteras. After lunch Saturday, the skies cleared, sun came out, and I decided it was time to put on the Kumho Victoracers for a dry track. Rob Andrews helped me do the change (THANKS!), as I needed to bleed my brakes too since I didn't do anything to them since running at Texas Motor Speedway in December. We also put the Hawk blue pads back in the AP Racing calipers up front and swapped my rotors left to right (we had mounted them reversed -- DOH! Thanks, Don P.; rotors with directional vents should be mounted with the idea that air will enter the middle of the rotor at the hub, and be centripitally moved toward the outside of the rotor as the wheel turns).
Anyway, our group was heading out by the time we were finishing up the work, and we both missed 5-6 minutes of our third run group of the day. I figured it was time to get fast around the track since it was dry, but that would require me to not always brake in a straight line, and to drift, which I had not been doing in the morning. With the race pads up front and Kumhos on the car, it would get real squirmy under braking, and my confidence was shaken. Toward the end of the run group, I realized I hadn't checked tire pressure when I went out, and that the last time these were on the car was for an autocross, so the pressure was likely too high, and when I checked in the paddock after I pulled in, sure enough I was about 48-49psi in each tire (hot), so I let about 7-8 pounds out of each tire, to get 41F/40R (hot).
I also went and asked for an instructor to come with me on my last run group of the day. All in all I wasn't in the zone on Saturday at all. The rain and tire change had me distracted, and I wasn't focused on the track, consistently turning in too late for some of the corners, or turning in too abruptly. I got a guy who drives a Viper to instruct me, and he of course noted I was going in too hot to the corners and not looking through the turn a lot of the times (true), but he also told me I needed to trail brake in lots of places and rotate the car, and got my back on the line in T5 (yes, you actually apex there, not drive on the outside, which a lot of cars in our group weren't and seeing so many people doing it was messing me up), so I could trail brake and rotate into T6, trail brake and rotate into T8, trail brake and rotate into T13, and confirmed that I should take the low line into T1 from the front straight, saying it saves him a full second/lap in a Viper, and that he can go into T1 at 160mph in it, then trail brake to the turn in for T2, rotate a little and hammer it through T2. The pointers helped a lot, and felt like Sunday would be a good day for me.
Sunday morning rolls around and the weather's great. Clearing skies, and temperatures that start in the high 50's and make it to about 80 in the afternoon. Today, we try and get a few Audis out on the track in line in yellow group. Ryan E. in his TT225 Coupe (on Hoosiers), and Todd W. in his new 1.8T Avant (on a special APR 100 octane program), as well as a couple other Audis went out. I started driving fast, but was still making mistakes that hurt me on lap times. Me, Ryan and Todd started booking at a pretty good clip together. Todd in his 1.8T Avant on the juice could just about keep up with my stock ECU+exhausted S4 on the straights, with me able to get 122-123 (4th gear rev limiter) at the end of the front straight, and Todd able to crack 115, but I would just barely pull the 1.8T until we got past 100mph, and the front straight was the only place on the track to do that. On the second lap of the first run group, I was following Ryan into Turn 4, and Todd was behind me. We had caught a Pantera who was being given a passing flag by the corner worker. Ryan was gearing up to have lots of exit speed on the Pantera for the short straight between T4-T5, and closing on the Pantera when it spun right at the apex of 4. Ryan was on the brakes and about to go wide of the Pantera when the Pantera backed up (at the end of the spin), and Ryan was suddenly full into ABS so as to not T-bone the Pantera. I slowed to about 25mph and just went right around the mess in the grass, waving for letting me pass of course, and continued about the rest of the run.
Second run group was much the same with Ryan, Todd and myself (note: Todd was on S-02 PP's), except that I was in front of the others, right behind two yellow Z06's. I had stuck like glue to the back of one through T1 & T2, but had turned in late to T3, so the Z06 opened up some ground heading into T4. Obviously feeling the pressure from that "blue menace in his review" he likely gave it a little too much throttle in T4 and spun too, ending up outside of the apex in the grass. I slowed to about 30-35 and passed him, waving of course, but I was a little upset due to the variation in my line and turned in too late for T6, and ran wide on track out. Since I early apexed there once and went 4 wheels off last year, I figured no biggie if I do it again, so I went off the track (I really thought I could do it and only get 2 wheels off, but I didn't), and let off the gas a little, carefully but quickly worked back on to the track and took off down the straight. The corner worker couldn't even tell I got 4 off so no black flag for me (yay!), although Todd was wondering if I did since he got to drive through my dust cloud.
We observed the M5 guy again out on the track. That is a spectacular machine. He was driving the **** out of it. We saw him power drift for a third of the way down the straightaway between T11-T12, when a bad line in T10 caused him to miss the apex of T11. Based on this and my observations from behind while in the 944 Turbo, I have no doubt that if the new M3 is anything like the new M5, us S4 owners will have our hands more than full when that is driven in the hands of a competent driver. The E36 M3's however this day, weren't much for me to worry about, although a yellow one was running even with me on Sunday morning. I don't think he was quite up to my lap times that I posted Sunday afternoon though.
A few Audi guys showed up to spectate at lunch, and for the third session, I was feeling like it was time to start going for some fast laps. Ryan and I started lapping together, and were pretty much kickin' *** and takin' names. We got a lap in the 2:11-2:12 range, and were turning consistent 2:13-2:15's. I was turning into T1 at ~115mph (after giving a slight tap from 123 on the straight), and trailbraking and drifting my way towards the T2 turn in from that point forward. Ryan told me he wished he had video from behind of me going through there, because it was a sight to see. When we got in, we were glad to see these lap times, and decided the last run of the day we were going to go out and get a 2:10. Well after doing a little more drifting, I turned a 2:08.6 and pretty much couldn't believe it. Ryan was pretty much hanging with me, but I was just a tick faster on my fastest lap, so he probably got a 2:09.1 or so. I still left time on the track on this lap. I can still go into T1 hotter (and drift and trail brake a little more), be a little more rotated at the turn in for T2, turn in a little slower for T3 (to be faster down the next straight), turn in sooner and slower for T4 (to be on the power through most of the turn), rotate more and be a little slower at turn in for T6, just go faster through T7 (need to try 95mph once), slow throught the carousel (T10) a little to be in the optimum position to put power down before turn in for T11, and get set up in T13 better, so I can turn into T14 quicker so I can start the drag race down the front straight and not enounter tire scrub through T15. So I think I'm still leaving a good 2-3 seconds on the course out there.
Also, a final note. Drifting and trail braking is not something you should be doing when learning your S4. It has only been a year since my first track event, and I feel like I've got the hang of it pretty good. I had only driven at TWS twice before, once for a full weekend, and once only for one run session before my turbos blew. Drifting and trail braking on street tires seemed much harder to do than on track tires. Street tires don't seem to have that momentary instance of super traction that track tires do, and that super traction is often what helps rotate the car at turn in points (IMO). This was all done on the stock suspension. The S4's suspension DOES NOT need upgrading for any novice and most intermediate drivers. Learn to drive the S4 on the stock suspension. It is an incredible car. You are not an intermediate driver until you have been to several track events, and are doing good in the intermediate group. Please go learn to drive before you touch your suspension.
I am ready to finally upgrade my suspension, and my mind should probably be made up in April what I'll do. It will be a while before I move up to the advanced group though. Half of the cars in Red are dedicated track cars. The other half are fast cars driven by people who race or have raced before.
Also, the outside of my Kumho's wore bigtime (although there's still a few track events in them). Is there any camber adjustments we can do the S4 at all without replacing the links? Will an aftermarket suspension affect camber?
Did I leave anything out? ;-P
02-26-2001, 11:35 AM
#4
AudiWorld Expert
Thread Starter
Link to a map of TWS for reference to the turns, and a few things I forgot:
Rumor has it that Todd was lifting an inside rear wheel in the 1.8T Avant around the carousel (T10), although I was out on the track in front of him, so I never saw it, but one thing's for sure, he would go through as fast as or faster than I could in my heavy *** S4. Todd also reports passing a Pantera that had an instructor riding along (i.e., instructor said let this A4 pass you) and seeing the Pantera driver get visibly upset in his rearview when seeing a "station wagon" (4-cylinder no less) go around him.
Also, about the Pantera in red group that held us up. It really got me upset because I was going out with the instructor in the 944 not because I just wanted a fast ride, but because I wanted to learn how to drive fast on the track, and with us always being held up, we couldn't do that. Even if we'd pulled down pit lane to open up the track, we would have caught that Pantera again, or the one we had passed, in probably only a lap or two. It got my instructor especially upset because he was going for lap times that session. A bunch from a Mustang club showed up and they were pretty cool out on the track though, and drove pretty well and were considerate of other drivers (at least in yellow and red), although a couple of the fast ones sure made a hell of a lot of noise for not having at least 1000HP (probably more in the neighborhood of 400-500HP).
I think we had 17 Audis show up to be driven by students, but our lowest turnout of S4's in a year (there were only 4 S4's, 5 TT's, 1 A6 2.7T, 5 A4's, a ~'91 Coupe, and Rick's ~'83/85 Quattrostein Coupe). This was still enough for there to be more students there in Audis than any other make (out of 100 students & maybe 90 cars). Counting the instructors' cars though, there were still more P-cars than anybody else, with a decent turnout of 3 series BMW's of different vintage, Corvettes, Camaros, & Vipers.<ul><li><a href="http://www.thedriversedge.net/track.htm">http://www.thedriversedge.net/track.htm</a</li></ul>
Also, about the Pantera in red group that held us up. It really got me upset because I was going out with the instructor in the 944 not because I just wanted a fast ride, but because I wanted to learn how to drive fast on the track, and with us always being held up, we couldn't do that. Even if we'd pulled down pit lane to open up the track, we would have caught that Pantera again, or the one we had passed, in probably only a lap or two. It got my instructor especially upset because he was going for lap times that session. A bunch from a Mustang club showed up and they were pretty cool out on the track though, and drove pretty well and were considerate of other drivers (at least in yellow and red), although a couple of the fast ones sure made a hell of a lot of noise for not having at least 1000HP (probably more in the neighborhood of 400-500HP).
I think we had 17 Audis show up to be driven by students, but our lowest turnout of S4's in a year (there were only 4 S4's, 5 TT's, 1 A6 2.7T, 5 A4's, a ~'91 Coupe, and Rick's ~'83/85 Quattrostein Coupe). This was still enough for there to be more students there in Audis than any other make (out of 100 students & maybe 90 cars). Counting the instructors' cars though, there were still more P-cars than anybody else, with a decent turnout of 3 series BMW's of different vintage, Corvettes, Camaros, & Vipers.<ul><li><a href="http://www.thedriversedge.net/track.htm">http://www.thedriversedge.net/track.htm</a</li></ul>
02-26-2001, 11:56 AM
#5
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About Todd tripoding the Avant...
I was in the group of spectators who were hanging out at the carousel when we caught sight of this. I only saw it happen with my own eyes once -- the other times, I had been taking pictures of cars for Rob Andrews with his camera and was paying more attention to framing up the shots. If I managed to capture a picture of the Toddvant with a wheel in the air, it'll be on Rob's camera. When I came out later with my own camera, Todd was keeping all of his paws planted.
Someone in our group suggested that the wheel was coming up when he was hitting the apron, but I never saw him do that personally.
Either way, that was one grocery hauler that was hauling something <i>else</i> this past weekend. :-)
Someone in our group suggested that the wheel was coming up when he was hitting the apron, but I never saw him do that personally.
Either way, that was one grocery hauler that was hauling something <i>else</i> this past weekend. :-)
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02-26-2001, 12:24 PM
#8
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I still do, but subtlely now. There is an abundance of WOT noises in my office today though...
...and my wife said I was snoring last night. I think it was just me making "the Mustang at WOT down the front straight noises" in my sleep (that's kind of what they sounded like anyway).
02-26-2001, 12:45 PM
#9
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I was thinking with more practice and a suspension, I could shoot for breaking the 2:00 mark...
...but I don't think I would get there unless I chipped the S4 again (which I figure would be worth about 2-2.5 seconds at TWS, maybe 3 on 100 octane). I figure the driver's got room for another 2 seconds of improvement, plus whatever a reasonable suspension upgrade could give me (4 seconds?). I wonder if anyone's ever broken the 2:00 mark at TWS in a 4-door driven on the street?
02-26-2001, 02:51 PM
#10
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Great report. On the camber...
There is no camber adjustment up front. If you lower the car an inch or more, you'll get about a degree of negative camber. I get much more even wear now that I'm lowered.
I completely agree with your upgrade comments. I had 5 events on stock suspension before I felt it was time to upgrade.
Rich
I completely agree with your upgrade comments. I had 5 events on stock suspension before I felt it was time to upgrade.
Rich