Terry D.

The Scottsdale Audi track cars have now blown the K04 turbo each of the two times they have run in track time (NASA) events at PIR.<p>This time they didn't even make it 'til lunchtime, and the turbo was seized solid!<p>They think the oil supply line is not big enough for this setup at the track.<p>But when it was running, it was awesome!!!!<p>Any thoughts??? I run a lot at both tracks with both NASA and ASRA here in Phoenix, and would like the extra OOMMPPHH from a K04, but want it to be reliable....................

Kev

What I mean by that is are the A4's full out race cars? Or this is like an autoX? <p>If it is a street car, what turbo kit did he/she get? Neuspeed or Wett or somebody else? <p>I'm one of the people who's considering K04 too...and you are damn right...I want my car to be reliable...<p>Kev <p>

bill m

what tuner's kit were they using?

Lucas

I destroyed mine last sunday, just finnished the warm up lap and bang!<p>Loose oil cooler line was the blame.

greg woo

Before this story balloons into a series of hypothesis (is that the correct plural form?) I will provide the factual information known to date on the Scottsdale Audi KO4 situation. <p>Scottsdale's first turbo was sent back to KKK for inspection. They determined that the motor had ingested a foreign object (track debris) which had hit the intake impeller, worked its way through the motor, then hit the exhaust propeller and exited the exhaust. Both intake and exhaust vanes were damaged. According to KKK, the remaining vanes were then thrown out of balance, the impeller shaft began to wobble, and the bearing seized shortly after.<p>We do not doubt KKK's analysis, but we have suggested to Scottsdale Audi that another theory may also be valid. The turbo could have been oil starved, leading to a failure fo the impeller bearings and subsequent "wobbling" of the shaft that led to the intake and exhaust side vanes striking the housing. This is just a theory though!<p>The kit is a Neuspeed STREET upgrade kit. I qualify this comment because our K04 kit is designed for STREET use. Yes, it can be used on the track, but the owner must be aware that RACING requires additional development at his/her own expense. After nearly 8 seasons of SCCA regional and national competition, two of which were spent in an RX7 turbo in the old SSGT class, I have a long list of parts that I have broken at the track, including turbochargers. Racing breaks parts. Period. If it didn't, every competitor in the LeMans 24 hour race would finish.<p>We are waiting for KKK K04 turbo to be returned to us for an analysis by another independent source. In the mean time, if you are planning to take your Audi to the track with a K04 kit installed, keep this in mind: you will be circulating the track faster than K03 equipped cars because you have over a 40HP advantage. As a result, you may want to think about dry-sumping your car, or at least having a few baffles put in your oil pan. Moroso also makes an emergency 3 quart oil feeder that injects oil into the pressure side flow when it senses a drop in oil pressure. These are all parts to consider.<p>With Best Regards,<br>Greg Woo<br>President, NEUSPEED/APS/Neumann Distributing

Steve S.

Since I may be going this route early next year with a 2000 1.8TQM...and do go on tracks more frequently now...this is VERY important information to me. Thanks again.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

ErikR

Greg,<p>Thanks for the update. We are always interested in the facts here. Turbo damage can happen due to a dozen different problems unrelated to your product or design. We are also interested since it seems like you have done the best work with the K04 out there.<p>A question: If the bearing seized, wouldn't it be obvious with blueing, carbon, and scoring on the flats? This is opposed to a damaged impeller blade?

tom_w

I wonder:<p>What oil weight are the scottsdale cars running, what pressure are they running at,<br>and how hot is the oil when pushing the car?<p>My previous car, a volvo 240 turbo w/ 1bar boost, siezed a new turbo. I replaced it<br>with the same unit, added an aux oil cooler, hd oil pump (old one had 145k on it), oil thermostat,<br>and swithced from 20-50 synthetic to 10-30 synthetic. The combo kept the oil<br>relatively cool when constantly in the boost (235 or so, but I was canyon blasting,<br>not hot lapping).<p>Iv'e noticed my oil temp (98 a4) last summer easily hit 230 cruising at 85 with the a/c on.<br>I can image that they could see pretty high temps<br>with the additional, and constant boost.<p>A thinner oil with the higher capacity and dissapating power of an external cooler<br>(even a long piece of tubing exposed to air flow) should help. I would try to measure<br>the oil temp returning to the motor from the turbo. If the turbo is running way hot it may<br>be coking the oil at the bearings causing the siezing.<p>Also look at the size of the oil outlet from the motor, inlet to the turbo, and <br>outlet from the turbo. Make sure the oil lines, are at least the size of the input/outlet<br>aperatures, and enlarge and match those aperatures if possible.<p>Without ever seeing the oil routing to the turbo on a 1.8t I can't guess how audi regulates<br>the flow to the turbo. Its probably a combination of the flow from the pump, and a restrictive<br>aperature like the tubing. There may be internal oil passages that could also limit<br>the flow to the oiling lines. But enlarging those could be problematic (you wouldn't want<br>to trade off the turbo for the whole motor). At that point I might consider either a separate<br>oiling sysem for the turbo, or going dry sump.<p>Wow what a brain dump, loosing a turbo $uck$.<br>///t<br>

Paul N

A careful analysis of the shaft and vanes should be able to determine if damage to the shaft was caused by vane damage or as you suggest caused by the bearings siezing which caused the shaft to wobble. One important thing to remember is that if the vanes are out of balance the shaft will really begin to wobble. Ever see a ceiling fan where the blades are out of balance. If the bearings seize the shaft will not tend to wobble as much. I would tend toward KKK's analysis, but people do make mistakes, so the results of the independent analysis would be interesting. Let us know what happens.<p>I work at a electric utility and have heard the horror stories if wet steam ever enters the turbine. The water droplets damage the vanes causing vibration and possible shaft damage. Not to different from the turbo analysis. Hmm.... I wonder if water droplets could cause damage to the turbo? <p>I do have one question, how did foreign matter get past the air filte? Is there any expanation for this, ie damaged filter, improper installation, or other reason.<p>Paul N

Lucas

Oil Feeder Pipe came Loose.<br>Loss of Oil Pressure to Turbo.<br>Cooling lost in turbo Bearings<br>Hot, Cooked, Fried etc Bearings.<br>Bearings Seized<br>Shaft Broken<br>Exhaust Vanes just dangling loose on broken shaft in exhaust vanes.<br>