NASA racer

it's not like we're saying "oh god, don't go do that, it's INSANE!". By DEFAULT we've moved through many layers of motorsports ranks to race what we race and all you or I or John are saying is IT ISNT SAFE SO DO IT WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE.

What's so freaking controversial about that?!?!?!

O.W. Kenobi

I know that you have gobs of experience. It appears that you haven't been to a DE in a while. It's hard to accurately comment on the current state of DE participants if you're never there anymore.

NASA racer

every one of the guys in the top two run groups were trying to go as fast as they possibly could and had modified their cars to make them faster than they should have been going around a race track.

Two of my friends were there running and one was learning and a beginner and the other was mostly concerned with his lap times. I was there trying to sort out some stuff on the car.

O.W. Kenobi

in the advanced groups, but there are plenty of guys who are there to learn. In fact, the latter group is usually group I hang out with in the paddock. I guess you and I have different types of friends/acquaintances. Did you bother talking to every one of the guys in the top two run groups, or are you making an assumption that they weren't there to learn? You don't think at least one of them was at all concerned with learning something?

Silver Streakin'

When it comes to you sitting in the pass seat, your fear is a mechanical failure rather than a driver error that causes an accident where there could be a higher risk for injury or worse.

I'm sure you'd be fine at a Skippy, Panoz, or NASCAR school which provide cars rather than driving a student's prepped car.

O.W. Kenobi

Perhaps he should work towards improving rather than criticizing...

Silver Streakin'

winter driving school

I did Tim O'Neal's winter driving school (2 days) twice. At low speeds (almost never left 2nd gear), I learned more about over-steer, under-steer, skids, and gaining control back from each with slight, smooth inputs than I have at dry track DEs.

I feel more confident about losing control of the car because I feel that I can gain it back without even thinking about it.

If you're on the East Coast, it's worth the drive to Tim's school in NH.

Silver Streakin'

in an advanced run group (I'll keep the club's name out of this post, but it wasn't an Audi event.).

All they wanted to do was drive as fast as they could and no saturday afternoon corner worker was going to stop them from breaking the rules. And, did someone total a car in that very run group? yes.

Mark Dalen

That pretty well covers my big concern and it is not easy to take care of. Compare it to SCCA tech. A car is carefully inspected by people who are well trained in order to issue a log book. They examine the rollbar/cage, drill an inspection hole, look at the welds, etc. Belt mounting is chekced as well as other items. Each year, the car goes through an annual inspection to confirm the status of the equipment. Personal gear is also checked as part of the process.

Even a DE with tech inspection looks at wheel lugs and a quick check of other stuff. A badly built rollcage is not seen. In a street car, much of that is hidden behind panels. DE tech inspectors are not trained for full inspection and there is no time or system to do that.

The idea behind a DE is that street cars, with stock equipment, go on track. There is little need to inspect factory equipment. But more and more, that is not the case and DE's have no ability to handle those modified cars.

I am fine with professionaly prepped cars from places like skippy, etc.

Mark Dalen

with someone who wants to do DE's. I have no real interest in running in them. I am not an organizer of DE's. Even if that were not the case, I have never been trained as a tech inspector and do not feel qualified to pass judgement on rollcages, etc. On top of that, what rules and standards would a qualified tech inspector try to enforce?

Bottom line, that is not a job I want, but that fact does not disqualify me from commenting on DE safety.