AUDIBOY: you rode in a apr stage3 with a cone intake?
05-22-2002, 09:41 PM
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AUDIBOY: you rode in a apr stage3 with a cone intake?
i saw your post a few days back responding to just dave's intake/heatsheild. you implied a possible tremendous (10-15hp) gain due to the heat shield and intake tubing on an apr stage3. ??
how did it compare with the stock airbox? just a little curious ... and of course hoping for the best. =)
stage3 install in 2days! woohoo!
how did it compare with the stock airbox? just a little curious ... and of course hoping for the best. =)
stage3 install in 2days! woohoo!
05-23-2002, 10:02 AM
#2
probably more, but until Mike get's his clutch replaced, it's hard to find out...
Before the cone at 100octane and APR race program his clutch would occasionally slip but still hold.
After adding his cone setup he had lying around since his none stage III days, you can't push the car anymore. Revs climb so much faster that at 65mph, the clutch will just slip and stay at 5000rpm like a CVT.
I still have yet to finish his cold air box, but when I was working with his stock box (due to a misfire he had earlier) I can only imagine the inefficiency of the stock setup, specially that screen in the opening of the box, evnetually resulting in more heat and lower hp. Faster spoolup is a result of a better flow and a lower Pressure ratio. Hence torque much earlier and probably peaks much higher. The end resulting 'HP' may not be as high, but since the torque curve moved around, the hp produced at that rpm is definitely more pronounced.
After adding his cone setup he had lying around since his none stage III days, you can't push the car anymore. Revs climb so much faster that at 65mph, the clutch will just slip and stay at 5000rpm like a CVT.
I still have yet to finish his cold air box, but when I was working with his stock box (due to a misfire he had earlier) I can only imagine the inefficiency of the stock setup, specially that screen in the opening of the box, evnetually resulting in more heat and lower hp. Faster spoolup is a result of a better flow and a lower Pressure ratio. Hence torque much earlier and probably peaks much higher. The end resulting 'HP' may not be as high, but since the torque curve moved around, the hp produced at that rpm is definitely more pronounced.
05-23-2002, 07:48 PM
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that's a good thing to hear. about the cone intake that is .. =)
i can't believe he hasnt upgraded his clutch yet. all that power and he cant use it. what's that boy thinking? =/ he's had that kit for about 1.5years now? i'm pretty sure he had it before left.
a little clarification. the 65mph+ clutch slip was on 91 or 100octane? could it be due to the extra wear since the 100oct runs? and why are you making his cold air box? hehe.
i think i'm going to do something similar to just dave's full heat shield. minus the fog light snorkel. i'm NOT giving up my fogs. =b i have s4 wheel liners on both sides and i also cut out the plastic housing on the passenger side grill allowing air to flow straight thru into the wheel well. yea .. it's crowded in there but air will generally take the path of least resistance. i've also cut the stock snorkel to 'wrap' around my forward facing cone intake.
as i see it .. although the air may not flow directly toward the cone thru the bottom grill. the flow will produce a lower pressure zone 'sucking' down air from the factory intake and drench that entire area in a large hurricane of outside air. based on the severe discoloration on the top of the cone vs the rest .. it works. =)
woohoo! i'm going to drive around on the "stock" stage3 for a week or so and take some readings. then i'll pop on the cone with the full heat shield and compare the differences.
thanks for the info man.
a little clarification. the 65mph+ clutch slip was on 91 or 100octane? could it be due to the extra wear since the 100oct runs? and why are you making his cold air box? hehe.
i think i'm going to do something similar to just dave's full heat shield. minus the fog light snorkel. i'm NOT giving up my fogs. =b i have s4 wheel liners on both sides and i also cut out the plastic housing on the passenger side grill allowing air to flow straight thru into the wheel well. yea .. it's crowded in there but air will generally take the path of least resistance. i've also cut the stock snorkel to 'wrap' around my forward facing cone intake.
as i see it .. although the air may not flow directly toward the cone thru the bottom grill. the flow will produce a lower pressure zone 'sucking' down air from the factory intake and drench that entire area in a large hurricane of outside air. based on the severe discoloration on the top of the cone vs the rest .. it works. =)
woohoo! i'm going to drive around on the "stock" stage3 for a week or so and take some readings. then i'll pop on the cone with the full heat shield and compare the differences.
thanks for the info man.
05-24-2002, 09:06 AM
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due to the greed and questionable business ethics of apr houston ...
not only did i not buy the kit from them .. i will never do business with him again .. even if my car blows up.
i'll be doing the install with dustysa4's help. kenTX is supposed to stop by and be the "foreman" or such nonesense. =)
i'll be doing the install with dustysa4's help. kenTX is supposed to stop by and be the "foreman" or such nonesense. =)
05-24-2002, 10:13 AM
#7
his clutch held up well for a while. He even took it to Thunderhill and AutoX...
and on the track approached by a Porshe owner who asked "what the hell do you have in that thing" or something like that 
I believe he wants Dyno spot to do the clutch but they are relocating so they can't commit to doing it. I believe he's getting Juan's clutch. He ask if I want to do it, but not having a hoist, I don't want to commit.
The 65mph runs are with 100octane. BTW, he just told me yesterday. He did a spirited run on the freeway with a buddy's e43 (MBenz) and on a straight run with a slipping clutch, he still briskly accelerated away from it. Yes, the slipping clutch is not directly from the cone system, but it definetely contributed to it's demise as it was more pronouced after the switch.
This is similar to what Corey experienced when he put APR downpipes on Sharon's car. Suddenly, the clutch won't hold at full power.
I'm making the cold air bath part - similar to what just Dave did, instead, mine is a full box taking air from the stock location and from the fog light area. I was doing one out of aluminum, but may switch to easier ABS and fiberglass instead. BTW, if you want a good cone filter, RS akimoto - trust me
Next month, Mike and I will hook up to do some Vag logging just for fun. I'll also drop my digital temp sensor in that area to compare with the VAG air temp sensor.
I believe he wants Dyno spot to do the clutch but they are relocating so they can't commit to doing it. I believe he's getting Juan's clutch. He ask if I want to do it, but not having a hoist, I don't want to commit.The 65mph runs are with 100octane. BTW, he just told me yesterday. He did a spirited run on the freeway with a buddy's e43 (MBenz) and on a straight run with a slipping clutch, he still briskly accelerated away from it. Yes, the slipping clutch is not directly from the cone system, but it definetely contributed to it's demise as it was more pronouced after the switch.
This is similar to what Corey experienced when he put APR downpipes on Sharon's car. Suddenly, the clutch won't hold at full power.
I'm making the cold air bath part - similar to what just Dave did, instead, mine is a full box taking air from the stock location and from the fog light area. I was doing one out of aluminum, but may switch to easier ABS and fiberglass instead. BTW, if you want a good cone filter, RS akimoto - trust me
Next month, Mike and I will hook up to do some Vag logging just for fun. I'll also drop my digital temp sensor in that area to compare with the VAG air temp sensor.
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05-24-2002, 12:36 PM
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well .. here's my BAD experience with apr houston: mike staley (RANT)
----------------------------
<b>h&r coilover install</b>
about 3 maybe 4? months ago i went to him to have my coils installed. he came highly recommended by the local vdub crew. i got a rough figure of about $350 by word of mouth. very reasonable imo. when i finally spoke to staley he qouted me about $100 more. a little steep for a coilover installation.
when i inquired as to the difference in price, staley said it was due to the extra complexity of the bushing alignment on the quattros .. extreme costs in damages if they're not setup properly .. blah blah. i didnt know jack so i just accepted it and set up an appointment. he came highly recommended remember?
there were 2 s4's (zerin's imola and a negaro) sitting in the parking lot.. both lowered when i dropped off my car. i pointed to the negaro and said, "i want that ride height"
well .. i went to pick up the car later that afternoon. the corner heights seemed okay but it was hard to tell due to the driveway it was parked on. i was just too happy to finally have coilovers. =)
well .. later that night dustin and i found some fairly flat ground .. we discoverd that NONE of the corners matched in height! they were ALL OFF. grrr. additionally dustin asked me, "did he do an alignment?" "nope, was he supposed to?" apparently it's pretty common if not universal for installers to include an alignment and height adjustment in the cost of the install.
so .. for $100 OVER the normal install price .. i got NO alignment and a COMPLETELY f'd up ride height which has taken me hours to adjust. (i didnt mind at all adjusting the coilovers myself but still..)
you can imagine that i wasnt too impressed. i could've gone back and asked him to finish up what i believe should've been done. i neither had the time nor the patience to go through all that trouble for $100. shame on me for being a misinformed consumer... in the end, i let it go. experienced .. moving on.
----------------------------
<b>apr stage 3 install</b>
about 2months ago i asked staley, when we met at one of the frequent houston car meets, how much an apr stage3 install would run. i was qouted $550. great i thought. for that price .. i'll have him do it. a month passed .. i was on the verge of buying the stage3. i called him up to confirm the installation price. $750 he qouted. a $200 increase over a month?!?! was there a union strike?? of course my next question was "huh? why the jump in price?"
his response was and i qoute. "new turbo in the generation 2 stage3 kit". he said the price was adjusted to reflect the added complexity for install because of said new turbo .. blah blah tubes blah blah new turbo blah blah hoses. really?? i didnt know .. i havent followed the stage3 development and a new turbo was definitly a possibility. okay .. next question. i then asked him how much he'd charge me for install if i orderd the kit straight from apr itself. save $330 in taxes and pay only $75 in shipping which could possibly pay for 1/2 the NEW install cost.
we then went back and forth about 4x about how he would save me shipping costs if i ordered it through him(staley). apparently the numbers $75 shipping vs $330 taxes didnt add up in his head. he finally spit out a number. "an additional $500 on top of the installtion cost." what?!?!?! he was telling me it would then cost $750 + $500 = $1250 to install the stage3 kit. BS.
"why the extra $500?" i asked
"that's the profit i would've made if you purchase the kit from me." replied staley.
ah .. i was digging into his PROFIT MARGIN! no wonder he was so adamant and dense about the cost difference between shipping vs tax.
okay. it's not unheard of for shops to raise their install costs if parts were purchased elsewhere .. but MY GOD MAN! $1250?? i asked him if we could find a happy medium where both of us came out on top. he reluctantly agreed and said he'd call up apr and see if he could get purchase credit but have it delivered from alabama saving me about $250. he never called apr.
i was confused .. my brain juices were churning .. so i called up apr right afterwards. since then i have confirmed on NUMEROUS occasions that installation of the gen2 stage3 kit *IS AS IT WAS BEFORE*. the TURBO/WASTEGATE ROD was *SLIGHTLY MODIFIED* .. they're still using the *SAME TURBO*.
hrm. do you smell something?
so .. there we have it.
- $550 initial install qoute.
- jumped $200 one month later to $750 because of the "increased install complexity due to MYTHICAL NEW turbo"
- $500 additional cost because he wouldnt get purchase credit and wanted to make back 100% of the "lost" profit.
- grand total of an EXTRA $200 + $500 = $700 over what the initial install qoute was.
add the coilover install incident and the recent stage3 qoute debacle .. and my only conclusion is .. he's extremely greedy and sells snake oil on the side. he *seems* pretty tight with the local vdub crew as well as zerin .. so i'm sure he probably treats them pretty well.
have i ever called him back? no.
to qoute the godfather, "he's dead to me"
=b
<b>h&r coilover install</b>
about 3 maybe 4? months ago i went to him to have my coils installed. he came highly recommended by the local vdub crew. i got a rough figure of about $350 by word of mouth. very reasonable imo. when i finally spoke to staley he qouted me about $100 more. a little steep for a coilover installation.
when i inquired as to the difference in price, staley said it was due to the extra complexity of the bushing alignment on the quattros .. extreme costs in damages if they're not setup properly .. blah blah. i didnt know jack so i just accepted it and set up an appointment. he came highly recommended remember?
there were 2 s4's (zerin's imola and a negaro) sitting in the parking lot.. both lowered when i dropped off my car. i pointed to the negaro and said, "i want that ride height"
well .. i went to pick up the car later that afternoon. the corner heights seemed okay but it was hard to tell due to the driveway it was parked on. i was just too happy to finally have coilovers. =)
well .. later that night dustin and i found some fairly flat ground .. we discoverd that NONE of the corners matched in height! they were ALL OFF. grrr. additionally dustin asked me, "did he do an alignment?" "nope, was he supposed to?" apparently it's pretty common if not universal for installers to include an alignment and height adjustment in the cost of the install.
so .. for $100 OVER the normal install price .. i got NO alignment and a COMPLETELY f'd up ride height which has taken me hours to adjust. (i didnt mind at all adjusting the coilovers myself but still..)
you can imagine that i wasnt too impressed. i could've gone back and asked him to finish up what i believe should've been done. i neither had the time nor the patience to go through all that trouble for $100. shame on me for being a misinformed consumer... in the end, i let it go. experienced .. moving on.
----------------------------
<b>apr stage 3 install</b>
about 2months ago i asked staley, when we met at one of the frequent houston car meets, how much an apr stage3 install would run. i was qouted $550. great i thought. for that price .. i'll have him do it. a month passed .. i was on the verge of buying the stage3. i called him up to confirm the installation price. $750 he qouted. a $200 increase over a month?!?! was there a union strike?? of course my next question was "huh? why the jump in price?"
his response was and i qoute. "new turbo in the generation 2 stage3 kit". he said the price was adjusted to reflect the added complexity for install because of said new turbo .. blah blah tubes blah blah new turbo blah blah hoses. really?? i didnt know .. i havent followed the stage3 development and a new turbo was definitly a possibility. okay .. next question. i then asked him how much he'd charge me for install if i orderd the kit straight from apr itself. save $330 in taxes and pay only $75 in shipping which could possibly pay for 1/2 the NEW install cost.
we then went back and forth about 4x about how he would save me shipping costs if i ordered it through him(staley). apparently the numbers $75 shipping vs $330 taxes didnt add up in his head. he finally spit out a number. "an additional $500 on top of the installtion cost." what?!?!?! he was telling me it would then cost $750 + $500 = $1250 to install the stage3 kit. BS.
"why the extra $500?" i asked
"that's the profit i would've made if you purchase the kit from me." replied staley.
ah .. i was digging into his PROFIT MARGIN! no wonder he was so adamant and dense about the cost difference between shipping vs tax.
okay. it's not unheard of for shops to raise their install costs if parts were purchased elsewhere .. but MY GOD MAN! $1250?? i asked him if we could find a happy medium where both of us came out on top. he reluctantly agreed and said he'd call up apr and see if he could get purchase credit but have it delivered from alabama saving me about $250. he never called apr.
i was confused .. my brain juices were churning .. so i called up apr right afterwards. since then i have confirmed on NUMEROUS occasions that installation of the gen2 stage3 kit *IS AS IT WAS BEFORE*. the TURBO/WASTEGATE ROD was *SLIGHTLY MODIFIED* .. they're still using the *SAME TURBO*.
hrm. do you smell something?
so .. there we have it.
- $550 initial install qoute.
- jumped $200 one month later to $750 because of the "increased install complexity due to MYTHICAL NEW turbo"
- $500 additional cost because he wouldnt get purchase credit and wanted to make back 100% of the "lost" profit.
- grand total of an EXTRA $200 + $500 = $700 over what the initial install qoute was.
add the coilover install incident and the recent stage3 qoute debacle .. and my only conclusion is .. he's extremely greedy and sells snake oil on the side. he *seems* pretty tight with the local vdub crew as well as zerin .. so i'm sure he probably treats them pretty well.
have i ever called him back? no.
to qoute the godfather, "he's dead to me"
=b
