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German Engineering isn't all its cracked up to be

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Old 11-18-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DennisMitchell
Don't like the title of this thread. You purchase the last year of a nine-year vehicle life-cycle and are finding fault with the functionality that was designed probably in 2006. I am amazed how well the Q5 has held up against the competition over those years, and now. It is a great vehicle.
If you're a German nationalist or Audi fanboy, then I'm sure you wouldn't like the title. As I indicated, it was more to get attention to my post, although I'll come back to that at the end of this post. And I agree the Q5 is a great vehicle, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. But just about everything I brought up could have been done differently from the start, even if designed in 2006, or at least updated/modified sometime in the past 10 years. Could Audi allow the tailgate to be closed with the same button that opens it from the driver's door, or with the remote control? Could they have put a headlamp indicator in with the other warning lights? Could they allow power to be retained to the home buttons and the accessory power until the driver's door is opened after the ignition is shut off, much like the MMI power lasts that long? Could Audi remove the redundant "Auto" button on the climate control and put in a "dual" button? Could they add a dipstick, like the one you can buy aftermarket? Have remote start? (which also can be added aftermarket) Surely a heated steering wheel isn't out of the real of possibilities since you can find them on vehicles years ago costing half as much as the Q5.

If you can answer "yes" to any of these questions, it has nothing to do with the date this vehicle was designed.

Oh, and driving home today I thought of #12. The rain sensing wiper setting also could have been implemented better. The wipers positions are "off-rain sense-low-high." It would have been better to be "rain sense-off-low-high," or even just "off-low-high," keeping rain sense activation in the MMI, and add a 5th stop to the rain sensing setting switch, with the first being "off" then "1-2-3-4." I often use my wipers to just push down to activate one time to clear the windshield (like I did today). Well, in the rain sense position, I first have to move through off, then activate one time. Then it defaults back to off. So if I want to keep the wipers in rain sense mode, which I do, then I have to switch it back to rain sense, which makes the wipers then move a second time. So I have to move the stick into 3 different positions and have the wipers activate 2x when I just need 1x to clear the windshield. Hate to say it, but the implementation of rain sensing on my wife's Town & Country is more intuitive and works logically with only 1 push of the stick and it retains the rain sensing setting.

Again, these are minor things, things I'm surprised weren't corrected or modified for better efficiency/logical use over a life of 9 years of this vehicle. I had high expectations for a luxury car. A GERMAN luxury car. These shortcomings/oversights/whatever you want to call them are rather surprising to me, especially after driving lesser vehicles that "do it right." Hence, "German Engineering isn't all its cracked up to be."

Last edited by yeamac; 11-18-2017 at 09:45 PM.
Old 11-18-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by superswiss
1) There is a setting in the MMI under vehicle settings and central locking to disable the unlocking of the trunk. The previous owner must have set it that way. If that setting is on, then you can't manually open the trunk unless you have the key in your pocket. That's an optional safety setting, so nobody can open your trunk if you are pulled over and unlock the car to let passengers in and out.
So I changed this on the way home. I forgot exactly how it is worded, but it makes is sound like if "on" you are going to lock the tailgate when all the doors are locked, and conversely, unlock when the doors were unlocked. I believe I was the one to activate this, as I surely wanted my tailgate to lock with the doors and unlock when the doors were unlocked. Knowing what I now know about how it works, and looking at the wording, it isn't worded very intuitively.

Last edited by yeamac; 11-18-2017 at 09:47 PM.
Old 11-18-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by yeamac
So I changed this on the way home. I forgot exactly how it is worded, but it makes is sound like if "on" you are going to lock the tailgate when all the doors are locked, and conversely, unlock when the doors were unlocked. I believe I was the one to activate this, as I surely wanted my tailgate to lock with the doors and unlock when the doors were unlocked. Knowing what I now know about how it works, and looking at the wording, it isn't worded very intuitively.
Yes, the wording is a bit confusing. The default setting is what you want. By default the trunk locks/unlocks with the doors. What I would do is a factory reset on the MMI, so everything is back to their factory defaults and all the previous owners data and settings get erased. Then after that you can configure everything to your liking.
Old 11-18-2017, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by yeamac
Now that I have your attention ... Here are a few of my observations of dumb design ideas after owning my first "luxury" car for a month, the 2017 Audi Q5 Premium Plus with Technology Package and S-Line package (bought used with 8600 miles on it). I'm coming from years of owning GM/Chrysler vehicles, and we still own a 2014 Chrysler Town & Country and 2011 Kia Sportage. This Q5 drives like a dream -- has more than enough power, is a very quiet, comfortable ride, and I'm loving every minute of it. I imagine I'll own this car for many, many years to come. That said, there are quite a few things that are just downright dumb about the Audi Q5. (If there is a workaround to any of these, please share in a reply.)
.
Solution for you: sell Audi and then buy a Toyota, Kia ,Ford, Honda .....and....and .... You have a lot of choice

Next Shopping Tip: Take a test car and see if it has everything you want

FYI Audi has the option of additional heating with remote control but not for the North American market

PS: Send all your complaint directly to Audi Ingolstadt , maybe they will do something about it

Last edited by spijun; 11-19-2017 at 01:35 AM.
Old 11-18-2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by yeamac
If you're a German nationalist or Audi fanboy, then I'm sure you wouldn't like the title. As I indicated, it was more to get attention to my post, although I'll come back to that at the end of this post. And I agree the Q5 is a great vehicle, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. But just about everything I brought up could have been done differently from the start, even if designed in 2006, or at least updated/modified sometime in the past 10 years. Could Audi allow the tailgate to be closed with the same button that opens it from the driver's door, or with the remote control? Could they have put a headlamp indicator in with the other warning lights? Could they allow power to be retained to the home buttons and the accessory power until the driver's door is opened after the ignition is shut off, much like the MMI power lasts that long? Could Audi remove the redundant "Auto" button on the climate control and put in a "dual" button? Could they add a dipstick, like the one you can buy aftermarket? Have remote start? (which also can be added aftermarket) Surely a heated steering wheel isn't out of the real of possibilities since you can find them on vehicles years ago costing half as much as the Q5.

If you can answer "yes" to any of these questions, it has nothing to do with the date this vehicle was designed.

Oh, and driving home today I thought of #12. The rain sensing wiper setting also could have been implemented better. The wipers positions are "off-rain sense-low-high." It would have been better to be "rain sense-off-low-high," or even just "off-low-high," keeping rain sense activation in the MMI, and add a 5th stop to the rain sensing setting switch, with the first being "off" then "1-2-3-4." I often use my wipers to just push down to activate one time to clear the windshield (like I did today). Well, in the rain sense position, I first have to move through off, then activate one time. Then it defaults back to off. So if I want to keep the wipers in rain sense mode, which I do, then I have to switch it back to rain sense, which makes the wipers then move a second time. So I have to move the stick into 3 different positions and have the wipers activate 2x when I just need 1x to clear the windshield. Hate to say it, but the implementation of rain sensing on my wife's Town & Country is more intuitive and works logically with only 1 push of the stick and it retains the rain sensing setting.

Again, these are minor things, things I'm surprised weren't corrected or modified for better efficiency/logical use over a life of 9 years of this vehicle. I had high expectations for a luxury car. A GERMAN luxury car. These shortcomings/oversights/whatever you want to call them are rather surprising to me, especially after driving lesser vehicles that "do it right." Hence, "German Engineering isn't all its cracked up to be."
I guess I would say, hmmm enjoy that Town and Country. I'll come back to that with more than a few contrasting perspectives. Some generations old, but then as mentioned gen 1 Q5 goes back most of a decade now.

Let me explain the Q5 hatch (and Audi sedan trunks similarly) specifically since you dwell there as one example. Maybe one though that signifies customer preference or that "the other guy has it" may not always be the driver. The implementation is for safety reasons. Ever heard of a kid (or pet) getting squished in a tailgate? Or head or neck stuck in a window or sunroof? Sometimes "only" a trip to the emergency room. Sometimes worse. Not pretty stuff. Yeah, I guess folks want convenience galore, but in a split second tragedies occur. That's their design approach--they basically want you in visual close proximity in making decision to apply mechanical force that can cause bodily injury if not watched. If not desired, sell it and look elsewhere. Or, in some cases, actually it can be modded like the windows and/or sunroof with VCDS. Remote start is also a a no regulatory in lots of turf where Audi does business, hence why probably that isn't found either--even well preceding the green debates.

Since the Town and Country came up, I owned one of those along the way we can compare and contrast for the longer term on things I care most about, but using some of the same topical areas by chance. Very proud of it at the start. Got it custom built and loaded, even as an AWD back when it was offered. It was very hard to find in AWD at the time. Nevermind they don't have it anymore; basically only the Sienna does. (we bought that next, and preceding the Q5). Fold in the floor seats were more important meanwhile for Chrysler's perceived target market. Back in the day it had the Steyr drivetrain. Reactive silicone clutch pack only though, vs. the (gen 1 Q5) full time Quattro, even though most any Q5 gets better mileage than our T&C ever did.

Meantime, lets see along the way since I own cars often for 100K, and then family takes them a lot more miles or end of life. By 70K the rear diff was whining. Checked underneath and found fluid mess. Took it apart, blown seal. Parts I needed were several hundred dollars and a couple weeks wait. I can get parts for my ultra exotic W12 either off shelf, in two days from the Audi US warehouses or averaging maybe seven if it occasionally comes from Germany. Meantime most would have forklift replaced T&C diff I bet, which would have been big bucks. Tranny gone by about 140K. Left family members who got it from me stranded halfway across country for a week or more. And the miles were long lived compared to prior generations. The serp belt on the 3.8: fell off and left you or your wife at the side of the road about every 30-40K miles. Happened enough times I learned how to replace it--and the needed tools--on the side of the road. Maybe had to do with they couldn't for the life of them simply make a tensioner that aligned straight, OE or aftermarket. Tried em both. Instrument panel with the lights. Yep, had a lot of them. Particularly nice when...they all came on at once. The whole panel. Car stayed in family, but that was what ultimately totaled it. Car known to eat inst. panels. Steering wheel heat. I dunno. Back then they didn't have it IIRC. But, I did sort of expect the basic leather not to start to wear to literally nothing in spots by 100K. Multi inch chunks gone a year or two after that. Never had that in another brand with a leather wheel, which starts with paper thin leather they seemed to use. Rear hatch. Back then no auto rear hatch. Instead, the gas shocks gave out and it would fail on your head. Well under 100K. The brother in law got the next gen T&C. He had the auto lift. I think that was a well over a grand fix at the body shop at one point. His also was burning a quart every 500 miles by 100K, and was at the mechanic probably every three months for the latest issue. In both cases, by 100K the leather was alligator cracking on both front buckets. At 150K on ours it was ramshackle, rears too. Stuffing literally coming out. Wipers, not sure I recall that exactly, though I do recall how you had to remove the entire wiper drive assembly under the cowl simply to change the interior air filter. Ditto on doing some of the rear spark plugs IIRC; others you reached blind (feel only) from dead underneath reaching up over a foot. Great design? Never had to pull the wiper drivetrain on any other vehicle I have ever owned for basic maintenance. Nevermind too they didn't move fast enough in general even at high speed. Led to lots of RainX applications before long winter trips. While at it, since garage openers are another on the list, yes honestly a bit annoying on Audis. As mentioned though, an antitheft thing. A better design would be to allow it to stay active until driver's door opens. But I learned it ages ago so no big deal. And, not as annoying as the function dying on the T&C, fortunately under warranty IIRC. Died on Sienna too FWIW, post warranty but sub 100K.

We had many good family memories in the T&C actually. Long term reliability wise and interior and paint and trim holding by 8-10 years, just no way. What basically most surveys say as well on Chrysler products for years now. Net and with a whole bunch of first person compare and contrasts, I guess I'll take some design idiosyncrasies, and some in good faith they think are safety related or are regulated in major markets they sell into (think Europe) in exchange for a vehicle that generally holds up in both major drivetrain and general exterior and interior at 8-10 years. And that's putting aside the ones that leave me, or the wife, or the family successors on the side of the road.

Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 11-18-2017 at 11:39 PM.
Old 11-19-2017, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by yeamac
1) Rear hatch -- can't manually open it even if the car is unlocked. Well, it will open if the key is in my pocket, but often the car is unlocked and someone without the key wants to open the rear hatch! Several people have about pulled their arms off attempting this (myself included).

2) Rear hatch -- can't close the thing EXCEPT for the button on the tailgate door (driver's door button and remote will not close it!) Seems rather stiff to close manually -- I must admit I haven't even tried a manual closure yet. Hope the hatch button never goes out!

7) No engine oil dipstick. Really? I've read on this forum you can buy one, even though Audi will tell you they don't have them, but on a $50,000 automobile I shouldn't have to.
10) Has a winter package with heated seats, but no heated steering wheel? My wife's T&C has a similar package, but has a heated wheel, which is VERY nice when you are driving without gloves in the winter. So the soccer mom car bests Audi once again.
.
1. there should be a switch on the driver door trim to open the rear hatch. . I have also seen a technology that you can move your foot under the rear bumper, in order to automatically open the rear hatch if you want to retrofit that technology. Are you sure it does not have this???
2. there is a retrofit to close tailgate using the key. In Europe it is made by kufatec, you need the USA version. Dont know why Audi has not included this technology
7. Oil dipstick, there is a radio/mmi setting to check oil level​​​​​​ on the screen. Dont think you need one.
10. My 2009 Q5 has coding for heated steering wheel so their must be an option to buy a heated steering wheel if you wish to order one (I have 3 spoke paddle shift with multifunction)

I also love driving my tfsi Q5 however not a good offroad ride maybe due to 19" steering wheel.
​​​​​​

Last edited by apoelistas; 11-19-2017 at 05:52 AM.
Old 11-19-2017, 05:41 AM
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If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like none of these are deal breakers but rather things that one will adjust to and get used to over a longer period of driving the car. We've probably all comes across things that are different or things we'd like to se changed when we get a new vehicle. If there are too many deal breakers, the best idea is to move on to something else as soon as feasible..
Old 11-19-2017, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Q5 Bob
If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like none of these are deal breakers but rather things that one will adjust to and get used to over a longer period of driving the car. We've probably all comes across things that are different or things we'd like to se changed when we get a new vehicle. If there are too many deal breakers, the best idea is to move on to something else as soon as feasible..
Not really,
Most can be sorted out, not serious retrofits skills are required.
Audi in Europe has the best retrofit support. My Q5 is the best example.

Originally Posted by spijun
Solution for you: sell Audi and then buy a Toyota, Kia ,Ford, Honda .....and....and .... You have a lot of choice

Next Shopping Tip: Take a test car and see if it has everything you want

FYI Audi has the option of additional heating with remote control but not for the North American market

PS: Send all your complaint directly to Audi Ingolstadt , maybe they will do something about it
My wife has the forth gen Honda CR-V EX-L (with all options).
Q5 has firmware support, CR-V has minimal support just for fixes, Q5 control units are more advanced e.g. DRLs can be disabled with a radio option, or oil engine level and battery level on screen as radio options,, oil temperature on instrument cluster, Has audi drive select, options can be enabled with VCDs coding, Q5 AWD is more advanced than pseudo CR-V AWD, engine has high performance, transmission is high tech (audi).

I would not compare uneven technologies. However Acura RDX might be a good alternative if in USA (If it fomes with SH-AWD)

​​​​

Last edited by apoelistas; 11-19-2017 at 06:32 AM.
Old 11-19-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by apoelistas
10. My 2009 Q5 has coding for heated steering wheel so their must be an option to buy a heated steering wheel if you wish to order one (I have 3 spoke paddle shift with multifunction)
​​​​​​
Simply this is not supported by built-in hardware platform on Q5 , A5, A4

Originally Posted by apoelistas
My wife has the forth gen Honda CR-V EX-L (with all options).
Q5 has firmware support, CR-V has minimal support just for fixes, Q5 control units are more advanced e.g. DRLs can be disabled with a radio option, or oil engine level and battery level on screen as radio options,, oil temperature on instrument cluster, Has audi drive select, options can be enabled with VCDs coding, Q5 AWD is more advanced than pseudo CR-V AWD, engine has high performance, transmission is high tech (audi).

I would not compare uneven technologies. However Acura RDX might be a good alternative if in USA (If it fomes with SH-AWD)
​​​​
You're forgetting the price Honda CR-V starting from $24,150, Audi Q5 starting from $41,500

Last edited by spijun; 11-19-2017 at 06:53 AM.
Old 11-19-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by apoelistas
Not really,
Most can be sorted out, not serious retrofits skills are required.
Audi in Europe has the best retrofit support. My Q5 is the best example.



My wife has the forth gen Honda CR-V EX-L (with all options).
Q5 has firmware support, CR-V has minimal support just for fixes, Q5 control units are more advanced e.g. DRLs can be disabled with a radio option, or oil engine level and battery level on screen as radio options,, oil temperature on instrument cluster, Has audi drive select, options can be enabled with VCDs coding, Q5 AWD is more advanced than pseudo CR-V AWD, engine has high performance, transmission is high tech (audi).

I would not compare uneven technologies. However Acura RDX might be a good alternative if in USA (If it fomes with SH-AWD)

​​​​
Pretty sure the RDX does not have SH-AWD which has been a complaint by some auto reviewers.


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