stiles_s

Dealer has a couple that customers backed-out-of. Drove a mugello blue one. I'm super impressed.

I'm weighing buying a 997, a boxster S, or an RS4. I've owned several Audis and a 996 previously.

I recently spent some time in both of the Porsches (and an '08 vette, 335i and an s2000 fwiw). I wasn't expecting the RS4 to be much different than my wife's b5 S4. I was really pleasantly surprised.

Great power, great noises, stealth yet powerful looks, great brakes, and perhaps the biggest surprise: good steering feel (from an Audi (gasp).

For me, especially given my personal opinion regarding the "cheapening" of Porsches (disposable grenading engines, weaker asian-built trannies, etc.) since the 993, I think the RS4 is the ticket. I no longer lust after any P-car "south" of the GT3, and the lack of rear seats kills the gt3 for me.

I love it, now I need to figure out how to fund it.

Cheers,
Scott.

dxben

very unimpressed.

daveak05

not upping the ante while competition gets closer. that's my observation.

stiles_s

I'm not willing to spend 60+k on a high end German sports car when I can't trust that the mechanical systems are durable.

it used to be the engines and trannies in 911s were "bulletproof".

Porsche didn't make much money in those days.

Then they studied how Toyota made cars.

Now you can troll the Boxster and 996/997 lists and hear about grenading engines and gearboxes -- hear about dealers with stacks of crate rebuilt replacement engines ready to go. Learn that the dealer's can't rebuild the 996/7 engines -- Porsche just wants them removed, crated, and sent back. Learn that the gearboxes are made in Japan now instead of Germany -- with weaker synchros. Learn that the 996/7 engines cost about $10k, the GT3 engines about $30k.

One of hte hallmarks of Porsche sports cars used to be reliability and durability. With the exception of the GT3, GT3RS and Turbo, this just isn't true anymore.

Oh, and Porsche is now the most profitable car company in the world. Hmmm...

PS. I'm not just spraying. I spent my hard earned $$ on a new 996 in '03. Gearbox crate-replaced after a year. Oil pressure dropped going around cloverleafs, etc. Dealer said it was "normal" -- turned out it was. Porsche's dirty little secret. Not confidence inspiring to say the least.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest

hardy

I have an RS4 on order and I have a fair amount of wheel time in one but it does not compare to the 997C2S that I am selling to buy it. My wife is prego so we need 4 doors soon and I agree the RS4 is probably the best sedan on the road (prefer it to the M5) but it doesn't come close to the handling of the P car. The 997 was a complete rebuild for the 911 and has had a great reliability record as well as getting great reviews from knowledgable racers.

If you can afford the P car and don't need the extra doors and trunk space I highly recommend that you treat yourself to one. If you are a track junky get the 997GT3 but you would have a difficult time convincing many that have seat time in the RS4 and 997S that the Audi outperforms it. Just my 2 cents.

stiles_s

And if you read my post, I've already treated myself to a 911 once.

The 997 was far from a "complete rebuild". It's a refacing, plus a much nicer interior. They didn't fix the RMS issues, and didn't install a more durable powerplant (engines are still grenading mysteriously). I hear the 997s has better oiling than the 997, but both are inferior powerplants to the gt1-based unit in the gt3 and turbo.

I think the RS4 provides a "comparable" driving experience with the extra practicality of 4 doors. I also think it's built to "last" to a higher degree than the non-gt/turbo 911s.

daveak05

what's the Japanese transmission, Aisin?

a lot of the profit has come from the Cayenne. very ordinary, extremely overpriced. upper class soccer moms love it.

dxben

?

$$$

I understand your point, but I have not heard about this quality problem before you mentioned it.

dxben

911 short of the GT3 and you'll realize how heavy and unbalanced the car is by comparison. Then get back in the RS4 and the 911 just doesn't justify itself.

The areas I think the 911 are better than are gearbox and clutch, better than the RS4 and the Cayman. For some reason the Cayman S has many of the same gearbox pieces but is tuned very differently.

I honestly would not consider trading the RS4 for the 911 right now. yes its lighter and technically a better handling car, and yes the steering is better, but the overall experience is just not there for me.

The Cayman S however I think is the sleeper hit of the year and there is such a glut of them that you can now get 07 models for up to 18% off if you look hard.

daveak05

did you recently pick up a Cayman, Ben, or what? : )