need some action around here...poll: who makes the better car, Audi or BMW?
01-09-2008, 07:56 PM
#13
Some people choose one aspect over another. Handling, power, build quality, price, image,
drivelines, safety, lease rates, incentives, local dealers, and a mryid of other things can sway an individual's choice as to what is better for them at that moment.
When I sold cars I sent bargain hunters to Saab, image hunters to Mercedes, luxury hunters to Lexus, etc. There was no point in talking somebody into a car that wouldn't suit them, and then have them carp about the brand.
If you're an engineer/technical/detail geek, an Audi is probably a good choice ;-)
When I sold cars I sent bargain hunters to Saab, image hunters to Mercedes, luxury hunters to Lexus, etc. There was no point in talking somebody into a car that wouldn't suit them, and then have them carp about the brand.
If you're an engineer/technical/detail geek, an Audi is probably a good choice ;-)
01-09-2008, 08:50 PM
#14
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well, there's a high stakes battle of perception
going on between Audi and BMW currently, of which both Audi and BMW are well aware. Mercedes, after shedding Chrysler, is attempting to re-gain traction there too.
as the three continue to refine and further carve out their global strategy, BMW is the best positioned, IMO. they are also cash rich, Audi being dragged down by VW financial woes and Mercedes taking a big loss on the Chrysler purchase and subsequent sale.
Audi seems the most dynamic right now with the most new models planned, but whether they will all become reality or whether the financial situation will force them to curtail their plans remains very up in the air. i don't think Audi will be able to pull it off by saturating the market in an attempt to gain wider acceptance. building a better mousetrap never works by itself. Audi also faces a huge obstacle of being considered 2nd tier to Mercedes and BMW. they always have been. that's hard to shake.
they needs some winners, and the new A4 and A5/S5 might go a long way towards doing that for them.
as the three continue to refine and further carve out their global strategy, BMW is the best positioned, IMO. they are also cash rich, Audi being dragged down by VW financial woes and Mercedes taking a big loss on the Chrysler purchase and subsequent sale.
Audi seems the most dynamic right now with the most new models planned, but whether they will all become reality or whether the financial situation will force them to curtail their plans remains very up in the air. i don't think Audi will be able to pull it off by saturating the market in an attempt to gain wider acceptance. building a better mousetrap never works by itself. Audi also faces a huge obstacle of being considered 2nd tier to Mercedes and BMW. they always have been. that's hard to shake.
they needs some winners, and the new A4 and A5/S5 might go a long way towards doing that for them.
01-09-2008, 09:03 PM
#15
Have you noticed the Audis keep getting more expensive? Personally I think that will affect
buyers somehow. Some will no matter what consider Audi as #3 because that's just the way it has always been. And before people start jumping all over this, it's just my personal feeling. Anyway, with the ever increasing prices of Audis I can't help but wonder if that will turn people away towards BMW or Benz. Never mind the fact those cars are also $$.
01-09-2008, 09:41 PM
#17
This is to some degree a North American perception - and because Audi has had to trade on being
the cheapest, they have always had the least resources to change their image. Had 60 Minutes not happened, it would be a vastly different playing field since Audi was easily on par with BMW in the early 80's. As such, Audi AG has had to pour in far more money than they see back from AoA.
But the last few years has seen a change in mandate, with AoA being forced to take on more and more of it's own burden. Hence the rising prices. Dealers are being forced to become single point dealers and facilities upgraded. The factory partially assists in the costs, but the remainder comes from dealer pockets. It's an investment on the order of millions per dealer, not including more staff, more equipment, and more inventory. Daunting when customers often come into the dealer willing to pay almost nothing over invoice for most models.
I have a friend who sells BMWs. She used to sell Audis. She does not like selling the blue propeller brand because she cannot connect with the customers like she did with Audi. But the average BMW customer comes in already sold on the brand, and willing to pay near sticker. All she needs to do is help them pick colours, options and arrange financing. Easy money. Her husband is a manager at an Audi dealer. He laments not being able to hold onto salespeople long enough to turn them into polished and sophisticated representitives of the brand because there simply isn't enough profit left over to entice them to stay. By spending money in other areas, the Brand Specialist program has been allowed to wither, reducing or eliminating cash-back programs that allowed loyal Audi salespeople to remain selling the brand they loved. I think time will cure cure this eventually, but programs need to start now, as many Audi salespeople I meet now are woefully short of knowledge, skill, and esprit d'corps.
As of November, Audi sales worldwide were headed for around 950,000. North America took 93,000 cars. By contrast, Audi sold over 100,000 cars to China and Hong Kong. Places where fancy dealers and long comprehensive warranties are not part of the package.
But IMHO, the biggest threat to Audi is from within - namely the recent Porsche majority stake in VW. Audi has been moving upwards in ways that could threaten Porsche profits, and Porsche will be sure to poach ideas/engineering or squash new growth to benefit their own market perception. Piech (who is married into the Porsche family) was forced out due to retirement laws, and his ego demands that all companies rejoin under one umbrella so that he may once again controll things - even if behind the scenes.
____________________
In the end if you ask me, image means nothing to me personally. I am just as happy, or happier to drive my Alfa as I am the Ferrari. In fact driving the Alfa gives me a spit-in-your-eye satisfaction as it is now reverse snobbery;-) So BMW or Audi is just splitting hairs. Pick the car which suits your needs and personality best.
But the last few years has seen a change in mandate, with AoA being forced to take on more and more of it's own burden. Hence the rising prices. Dealers are being forced to become single point dealers and facilities upgraded. The factory partially assists in the costs, but the remainder comes from dealer pockets. It's an investment on the order of millions per dealer, not including more staff, more equipment, and more inventory. Daunting when customers often come into the dealer willing to pay almost nothing over invoice for most models.
I have a friend who sells BMWs. She used to sell Audis. She does not like selling the blue propeller brand because she cannot connect with the customers like she did with Audi. But the average BMW customer comes in already sold on the brand, and willing to pay near sticker. All she needs to do is help them pick colours, options and arrange financing. Easy money. Her husband is a manager at an Audi dealer. He laments not being able to hold onto salespeople long enough to turn them into polished and sophisticated representitives of the brand because there simply isn't enough profit left over to entice them to stay. By spending money in other areas, the Brand Specialist program has been allowed to wither, reducing or eliminating cash-back programs that allowed loyal Audi salespeople to remain selling the brand they loved. I think time will cure cure this eventually, but programs need to start now, as many Audi salespeople I meet now are woefully short of knowledge, skill, and esprit d'corps.
As of November, Audi sales worldwide were headed for around 950,000. North America took 93,000 cars. By contrast, Audi sold over 100,000 cars to China and Hong Kong. Places where fancy dealers and long comprehensive warranties are not part of the package.
But IMHO, the biggest threat to Audi is from within - namely the recent Porsche majority stake in VW. Audi has been moving upwards in ways that could threaten Porsche profits, and Porsche will be sure to poach ideas/engineering or squash new growth to benefit their own market perception. Piech (who is married into the Porsche family) was forced out due to retirement laws, and his ego demands that all companies rejoin under one umbrella so that he may once again controll things - even if behind the scenes.
____________________
In the end if you ask me, image means nothing to me personally. I am just as happy, or happier to drive my Alfa as I am the Ferrari. In fact driving the Alfa gives me a spit-in-your-eye satisfaction as it is now reverse snobbery;-) So BMW or Audi is just splitting hairs. Pick the car which suits your needs and personality best.
01-09-2008, 09:56 PM
#18
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April, every make is enhancing their dealer "stores"
from Hyundai to Mazda to Ford. Audi having to modernize their dealerships doesn't account for any unforeseen financial burden. they have separate marketing and facilities budgets. as far as going it on their own, yeh, that hurts(no longer sharing the expense with Porsche). but, Porsche wanted stand-alone, so be it.
your other points are really excellent.
your other points are really excellent.
01-09-2008, 10:07 PM
#19
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Great comments...sometimes I think we all fall prey to a little too much branding. We are all car
fans so let's just celebrate the great car choices we have now. Personally, I like both brands for different reasons, but I also like different beers, different ice creams, different cuts of steak, different movies...
01-10-2008, 03:56 AM
#20
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Since it's political season I'll say that they're both great.....
Owned an Imola 2000 S4 and loved it.
Traded it in for my M3 now and will keep the M forever.
Hopefully will get a RS to get me back into the Audi family
Traded it in for my M3 now and will keep the M forever.
Hopefully will get a RS to get me back into the Audi family