Oil extractor vs. draining oil?
01-20-2007, 04:10 PM
#22
The RS4 crankcase and oil pan are quite different than S4 and most engines
Every time I look at this engine I continue to be amazed at the little things done to make this a high performance engine. I have a couple of drawings to illustrate.
This is the S4 BHF V8 engine where clearly the dipstick guide can be seen entering the crankcase in the lowest region of the oil pan at the drain plug.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/s4%20v8%20oil%20pan.jpg">
This second drawing shows an exploded view of the RS4 BNS V8 block, which clearly shows the dipstick tube entering at a side appendage of the block that sticks out towards the NW of the drawing.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20dipstick%20guide%20location.jpg">
This next drawing shows the RS4 upper oil pan. On the middle left that same appendage is seen, along with the hole for the dipstick guide and o-ring seal
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20v8%20upper%20oil%20pan.jpg">
Finally, this last drawing show an underbelly view of the RS4 oil pan, rotated 180 degrees from the previous picture. Clearly the dipstick in the RS4 engine comes down in the area of the oil level/temperature sensor, which is in an elevated area of the lower oil pan.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20v8%20oil%20pan.jpg">
This is why we don't have access for vacuum extraction through the dipstick for a considerable amount of oil
The compare and contrast between this design and the S4 V8 is interesting. Internal baffles have been placed in the upper oil pan to keep the oil in place around the oil pump pickup. There is also another baffle plate between the crank and the remainder of the oil pan, to reduce windage loss.
Clearly there are huge differences in the design of this engine to meet it's rpm requirements. There are no such baffles in the S4 V8.
This is the S4 BHF V8 engine where clearly the dipstick guide can be seen entering the crankcase in the lowest region of the oil pan at the drain plug.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/s4%20v8%20oil%20pan.jpg">
This second drawing shows an exploded view of the RS4 BNS V8 block, which clearly shows the dipstick tube entering at a side appendage of the block that sticks out towards the NW of the drawing.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20dipstick%20guide%20location.jpg">
This next drawing shows the RS4 upper oil pan. On the middle left that same appendage is seen, along with the hole for the dipstick guide and o-ring seal
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20v8%20upper%20oil%20pan.jpg">
Finally, this last drawing show an underbelly view of the RS4 oil pan, rotated 180 degrees from the previous picture. Clearly the dipstick in the RS4 engine comes down in the area of the oil level/temperature sensor, which is in an elevated area of the lower oil pan.
<img src="http://www.teraspeed.com/RS4/rs4%20v8%20oil%20pan.jpg">
This is why we don't have access for vacuum extraction through the dipstick for a considerable amount of oil
The compare and contrast between this design and the S4 V8 is interesting. Internal baffles have been placed in the upper oil pan to keep the oil in place around the oil pump pickup. There is also another baffle plate between the crank and the remainder of the oil pan, to reduce windage loss.
Clearly there are huge differences in the design of this engine to meet it's rpm requirements. There are no such baffles in the S4 V8.
01-20-2007, 04:24 PM
#23
Dave
No, I don't crawl around under my car. I take it to my dealer for the oil and filter change. The first reason is so that there is a dealer record of all changes done, in case anything ever happens to the engine. The other reason is pragmatic.
The charge for an oil change and filter (I bring my own oil) is $64.68. During that time I run my business through a laptop on WiFi at the dealer, or at Starbucks up the street. If I had changed the oil myself, I'm sure it would take about a hour. Trust me, my hourly rate is much higher than the cost of an oil change and filter.
About 8 years ago I made that realization and stopped doing most of my own auto maintaince, except when it's something that's rewarding, like detailing. I bought the Pela oil extractor for the same reason you have one. I was hoping that I could do a complete oil change on the RS4 without scheduling a visit to the dealer. Now it will be used to refresh the oil occasionally. Oh well.
The charge for an oil change and filter (I bring my own oil) is $64.68. During that time I run my business through a laptop on WiFi at the dealer, or at Starbucks up the street. If I had changed the oil myself, I'm sure it would take about a hour. Trust me, my hourly rate is much higher than the cost of an oil change and filter.
About 8 years ago I made that realization and stopped doing most of my own auto maintaince, except when it's something that's rewarding, like detailing. I bought the Pela oil extractor for the same reason you have one. I was hoping that I could do a complete oil change on the RS4 without scheduling a visit to the dealer. Now it will be used to refresh the oil occasionally. Oh well.
01-20-2007, 06:01 PM
#24
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With your drawings in mind, do you think backing up on wheel ramps for a nose...
down attitude would displace the oil forward enough to allow an extractor to work? Just a thought, but I would certainly yield to those with more technical knowledge.
01-20-2007, 07:07 PM
#25
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Of course...
I am saying what will be collected in the extractor and allowing for approx 1/2 qt in the filter, you can tell if you got it all out based on capacity of the engine.
The 4.2 oil filter is accessible from the engine compartment.
The 4.2 oil filter is accessible from the engine compartment.
01-20-2007, 07:19 PM
#26
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Re: The RS4 crankcase and oil pan are quite different than S4 and most engines
That's why I asked if the RS4 uses a special oil pan.
However, dipstick tubes typically enter into the pan from the side, so it's hardly exclusive to the RS4.
Also, most modern oil pans have baffles or sections. The drain plug is located at the lowest point, but not necessarily the dipstick. So, again the RS4 is not unique there.
I would like to see something from Audi that shows an oil extractor as being inapplicable for the RS4.
However, dipstick tubes typically enter into the pan from the side, so it's hardly exclusive to the RS4.
Also, most modern oil pans have baffles or sections. The drain plug is located at the lowest point, but not necessarily the dipstick. So, again the RS4 is not unique there.
I would like to see something from Audi that shows an oil extractor as being inapplicable for the RS4.
01-20-2007, 07:30 PM
#27
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Scott...
I fail to see any point in this post.
I think it's quite simple. Someone asked about oil extractors and you said to drain the oil because they don't work...at least on the RS4. THAT's what I was finding hard to agree with. A simple determination like that made on the basis of a couple people's experience.
I don't think you bought an oil extractor for the same reason I did, at least not by your explanation.
I would have happily continued draining the oil by removing the drain plug on ALL my cars, except the belly pan made me choose another route. After first using it on my previous A4, I've never looked back. And I routinely use it on any car I'm now doing an oil change on.
If I ever happen to run into a problem extracting the oil out of a particular engine, then I'll drain it at the pan. Hasn't happened yet.
I think it's quite simple. Someone asked about oil extractors and you said to drain the oil because they don't work...at least on the RS4. THAT's what I was finding hard to agree with. A simple determination like that made on the basis of a couple people's experience.
I don't think you bought an oil extractor for the same reason I did, at least not by your explanation.
I would have happily continued draining the oil by removing the drain plug on ALL my cars, except the belly pan made me choose another route. After first using it on my previous A4, I've never looked back. And I routinely use it on any car I'm now doing an oil change on.
If I ever happen to run into a problem extracting the oil out of a particular engine, then I'll drain it at the pan. Hasn't happened yet.
01-20-2007, 08:31 PM
#28
AudiWorld Super User
Here is something from Bentley (and Audi) stating that the extractor does not work
On page 1, "Oil extraction not permitted with various engine types!" On pages 10-12, referring to 8-cyl. 4.2L FSI gasoline engines, RS4, "Oil extraction not permitted with various engine types!"<ul><li><a href="http://webpages.charter.net/parkhill/RS4/DIY/OilExtractor.pdf">Oil Extraction</a></li></ul>