So I had the rear interior in pieces for the harness bar measurement.
04-19-2007, 10:29 AM
#1
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So I had the rear interior in pieces for the harness bar measurement.
Do you think I should remove the child seat anchors for weight savings? I don't have any kids.
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15842007-04-19_12-27-32.jpg">
The plan is to bolt the harness bar to the rear seat belt anchor points. This is the driver's side. That whole assembly can be removed for installation of the Harness bar and then put back in place.
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15972007-04-19_12-34-07.jpg">
The passenger side bolt is easier to get to.
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15982007-04-19_12-34-14.jpg">
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15842007-04-19_12-27-32.jpg">
The plan is to bolt the harness bar to the rear seat belt anchor points. This is the driver's side. That whole assembly can be removed for installation of the Harness bar and then put back in place.
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15972007-04-19_12-34-07.jpg">
The passenger side bolt is easier to get to.
<img src="http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/296/DSCN15982007-04-19_12-34-14.jpg">
04-19-2007, 11:12 AM
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Yes I did, they are heavy. On my car (A4) the complete rear seat with component weighs 75 lbs.
I use the OEM belt anchors to secure my shoulder harness.
04-19-2007, 11:23 AM
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Here are some pictures of my harness set up...
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt01.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt02.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt03.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt04.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt05.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt06.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt02.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt03.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt04.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt05.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/belt06.jpg">
04-19-2007, 12:22 PM
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It looks great and would look really fly driving around town wearing the harness........
just make sure you have your numbers on the car at the same time. ;-) While you're at it you might want to put a sticker on the car that says SLAP NUTS! As far as the kids go you just never know when someone is going to leave some brats on your door step. : )
04-19-2007, 01:30 PM
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Very nice. Do you tuck the belts under the seat when not in use?
The reason I want a harness bar is because my shoulders protrude above the seat back so I want the harnesses going back horizontally from the seat as opposed to inclined downwards. I fear spine compression.
Having said that, there are those who say one should not use race harnesses unless one has a roll cage too. I guess one is not able to make everyone happy. :-P
Having said that, there are those who say one should not use race harnesses unless one has a roll cage too. I guess one is not able to make everyone happy. :-P
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04-19-2007, 04:47 PM
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IMPORTANT INFO ON BELTS. I don't talk to BMW traitors. LOL. PLEASE READ THIS...
Steve, the answer is no, I don't have a roll bar because it is my family car.
I use the full harness only in autocross competition. I believe I used it once on a road circuit at an ACNA. When attending another clubs driving school (BMW) I was told not to wear them because of the pre conceived notion that without a roll cage it could be dangerous in an event of a roll over. <b>However read this article and it may change your mind.</b> This was taken from a car or car competition forum a few years back.
<b>Race harnesses in street cars.</b>
I was corrected of a popular myth today in regards to racing harnesses in street cars. I was always led to believe that it's not a good idea to use race harnesses on street cars without rollover protection because race seats fix the occupant's head in position, placing it in jeopardy during a rollover accident in a car without rollover protection. However, a friend sent the following article to me recently contradicting this theory. I was always aware of the rollbar without helmet theory but the harness without rollover theory is new to me. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
#2-Myth - Aftermarket 4-5-6-point harness belts should not be used in cars without roll bars.
<b>A world-renowned panel of SAE vehicle safety experts from GM, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, University of Michigan, and a leading harness belt manufacturer</b>, were posed this question at the PRI show in December 2002. They <b>unanimously suggested that a properly installed 4-5-6-point harness belt system would significantly reduce the likelihood of injury in a rollover accident when compared to a stock factory 3-point system in vehicles without roll bars</b>. In addition they suggested that use of roll bars in primarily street driven cars could greatly increase risk to driver and passengers in daily driving.
Their explanation for this is clear:
<b>Most serious driver injury or fatality in rollover accidents</b> (where 3-point factory systems are worn properly) occurs <b>from head contact with the door frame</b> resulting when a car flips over and crashes on the left edge of the roof. (Passenger injury occurs when to the right edge of the roof).
Such rollovers result in loads of <b>10g to 35g deceleration</b> to the body <b>eliminating the possibility</b> of controlled "escape" by an occupant <b>to "duck" from the collapsing roof.</b> Such deceleration will typically eject the occupant partially from a 3-point factory belt.
The endless loop of webbing from the factory 3 point system will allow a combination of released webbing from the endless loop of the webbing at the shoulder that passes through the lap, and webbing elongation that [when] combined will <b>allow the body to move 50 to 100 mm upwards in the seat.</b> This can allow significant contact with the doorframe.
Deceleration forces to the head in contact with the door frame can easily <b>exceed 300g.</b> Properly installed "static" 4-5-6-point systems installed to factory provided D and E, or C points <b>will significantly reduce degree of contact with the door frame or even eliminate contact</b>, as there is minimal upper torso rotation. This configuration however allows sufficient lateral movement to be moved as allowed by external applied forces. Factory seatbacks will flex a significant amount under load giving more occupant headspace as the seatback is pushed rearward.
<b>4-5-6-point</b> harness belts generally <b>use 6% elongation webbing</b> in the lap belt as <b>opposed to 10-12% webbing</b> in factory belts. <b>This holds the occupant much tighter to the seat.</b>
EMTs will confirm that very few serious injuries result from properly restrained individuals in rollover accidents. Greater injury occurs when occupants are not restrained properly and have fully or partially come out of their harness. Schroth has had reports of several rollover incidents where customers have contacted us and stated that the EMTs credit the harness belts to [for] the lack of serious injury.
All vehicle safety systems are designed for 99 percentile accidents. Properly certified and installed 4-5-6-point harness belts significantly increase vehicle safety in 99% of likely accidents including rollovers. Any safety system including factory 3-point belts, airbags, traction control, etc. could result in greater injury in a 1% incident. The 99% rule is the best guideline for all safety equipment.
I use the full harness only in autocross competition. I believe I used it once on a road circuit at an ACNA. When attending another clubs driving school (BMW) I was told not to wear them because of the pre conceived notion that without a roll cage it could be dangerous in an event of a roll over. <b>However read this article and it may change your mind.</b> This was taken from a car or car competition forum a few years back.
<b>Race harnesses in street cars.</b>
I was corrected of a popular myth today in regards to racing harnesses in street cars. I was always led to believe that it's not a good idea to use race harnesses on street cars without rollover protection because race seats fix the occupant's head in position, placing it in jeopardy during a rollover accident in a car without rollover protection. However, a friend sent the following article to me recently contradicting this theory. I was always aware of the rollbar without helmet theory but the harness without rollover theory is new to me. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
#2-Myth - Aftermarket 4-5-6-point harness belts should not be used in cars without roll bars.
<b>A world-renowned panel of SAE vehicle safety experts from GM, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, University of Michigan, and a leading harness belt manufacturer</b>, were posed this question at the PRI show in December 2002. They <b>unanimously suggested that a properly installed 4-5-6-point harness belt system would significantly reduce the likelihood of injury in a rollover accident when compared to a stock factory 3-point system in vehicles without roll bars</b>. In addition they suggested that use of roll bars in primarily street driven cars could greatly increase risk to driver and passengers in daily driving.
Their explanation for this is clear:
<b>Most serious driver injury or fatality in rollover accidents</b> (where 3-point factory systems are worn properly) occurs <b>from head contact with the door frame</b> resulting when a car flips over and crashes on the left edge of the roof. (Passenger injury occurs when to the right edge of the roof).
Such rollovers result in loads of <b>10g to 35g deceleration</b> to the body <b>eliminating the possibility</b> of controlled "escape" by an occupant <b>to "duck" from the collapsing roof.</b> Such deceleration will typically eject the occupant partially from a 3-point factory belt.
The endless loop of webbing from the factory 3 point system will allow a combination of released webbing from the endless loop of the webbing at the shoulder that passes through the lap, and webbing elongation that [when] combined will <b>allow the body to move 50 to 100 mm upwards in the seat.</b> This can allow significant contact with the doorframe.
Deceleration forces to the head in contact with the door frame can easily <b>exceed 300g.</b> Properly installed "static" 4-5-6-point systems installed to factory provided D and E, or C points <b>will significantly reduce degree of contact with the door frame or even eliminate contact</b>, as there is minimal upper torso rotation. This configuration however allows sufficient lateral movement to be moved as allowed by external applied forces. Factory seatbacks will flex a significant amount under load giving more occupant headspace as the seatback is pushed rearward.
<b>4-5-6-point</b> harness belts generally <b>use 6% elongation webbing</b> in the lap belt as <b>opposed to 10-12% webbing</b> in factory belts. <b>This holds the occupant much tighter to the seat.</b>
EMTs will confirm that very few serious injuries result from properly restrained individuals in rollover accidents. Greater injury occurs when occupants are not restrained properly and have fully or partially come out of their harness. Schroth has had reports of several rollover incidents where customers have contacted us and stated that the EMTs credit the harness belts to [for] the lack of serious injury.
All vehicle safety systems are designed for 99 percentile accidents. Properly certified and installed 4-5-6-point harness belts significantly increase vehicle safety in 99% of likely accidents including rollovers. Any safety system including factory 3-point belts, airbags, traction control, etc. could result in greater injury in a 1% incident. The 99% rule is the best guideline for all safety equipment.
04-19-2007, 04:51 PM
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Yes the rear belts that attach to the shoulder harness can be tucked under the OEM seats...
The lap and anti dive belts are removed for normal use.
Keep in mind there is an angle from the rear seats to the shoulder harness but it is less than 45 degrees which is considered within the safety norms.
Keep in mind there is an angle from the rear seats to the shoulder harness but it is less than 45 degrees which is considered within the safety norms.