Talking of oil....
02-18-2007, 06:36 PM
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Talking of oil....
interesting reading this forum. Not sure I agree with everyting posted, so I'll hold forth some.
My understanding is as follows:
1. initial oil fill is usually especially designed to facilitate break-in. This is true in most every vehicle, but the special case of a RS-4 makes me a little cautious concerning the recommended 5,000 mile initial change. Of course, having a "poor quality" oil for first 5,000 mls may be just what the Audi experts want to facilitate break-in. I just don't know.
2. multi grade oils e.g. 5W/40 indicate 40 viscosity at operating temp (or at least higher temp) and W viscosity at low temp. You really just need the lower W grade to help cranking/firing when cold (W designation is for "winter"). Final operating temp visc grade is the key to film thickness and wear control, although as some have pointed out, most wear occurs at start up when cold, but the W classification is all about crancking speed to allow easy firing. i.e higher is better when warm and so synthetics such as 0W/40 are low visc when cold (helps start up and easy pumping to lubricate every critical part) and still "thick" when warm (40 weight vs. say 20) when warm for good wear control.
3. Don't ignore the VW 502 designation. This is a tough quality standard, measured in fired engines and determines oil performance pretty well over a wide range of vehicles. This determines the oil additive quality and is somewhat independent of viscosity. Think of it as a measure of the active ingredients that help control wear, oxidation, deposit control (on rings etc.), and keeping solids in suspension (in the oil) as opposed to dropping out and lying on surfaces where they can cause big time trouble (BTW this is why modern oils darkening with time is a good sign).
4. Most current engines (not necessarily a race engine like the RS-4!!!) do not require a high level of film thinkness and wear control and so specify a light weight oil (e.g. 5W/20) to get fuel economy (at least as measured by EPA). This is clearly irrelevant to an RS-4 owner....You must use the recommended oil quality and visc grade.
5. Notwithstanding 1. I tend to go along with the "get the wear crap out early" brigade and personally plan to change my oil at 500 miles or maybe 1,000 mls for first change.
6. There can be no downside (aside cost) to decreasing drain interval, but if the factory recommends 10,000 mls, I hesitate to tell them I know better. Maybe 5,000 to have cheap insurance for a vehicle I know is "at the edge". I respect the views on fuel dilution and wear metal analysis as more conclusive than my "trust the man" philosophy. Some really interesting, fact based info on these boards.
7. Is there any way to get an Audi rep to comment and avoid speculation?
My understanding is as follows:
1. initial oil fill is usually especially designed to facilitate break-in. This is true in most every vehicle, but the special case of a RS-4 makes me a little cautious concerning the recommended 5,000 mile initial change. Of course, having a "poor quality" oil for first 5,000 mls may be just what the Audi experts want to facilitate break-in. I just don't know.
2. multi grade oils e.g. 5W/40 indicate 40 viscosity at operating temp (or at least higher temp) and W viscosity at low temp. You really just need the lower W grade to help cranking/firing when cold (W designation is for "winter"). Final operating temp visc grade is the key to film thickness and wear control, although as some have pointed out, most wear occurs at start up when cold, but the W classification is all about crancking speed to allow easy firing. i.e higher is better when warm and so synthetics such as 0W/40 are low visc when cold (helps start up and easy pumping to lubricate every critical part) and still "thick" when warm (40 weight vs. say 20) when warm for good wear control.
3. Don't ignore the VW 502 designation. This is a tough quality standard, measured in fired engines and determines oil performance pretty well over a wide range of vehicles. This determines the oil additive quality and is somewhat independent of viscosity. Think of it as a measure of the active ingredients that help control wear, oxidation, deposit control (on rings etc.), and keeping solids in suspension (in the oil) as opposed to dropping out and lying on surfaces where they can cause big time trouble (BTW this is why modern oils darkening with time is a good sign).
4. Most current engines (not necessarily a race engine like the RS-4!!!) do not require a high level of film thinkness and wear control and so specify a light weight oil (e.g. 5W/20) to get fuel economy (at least as measured by EPA). This is clearly irrelevant to an RS-4 owner....You must use the recommended oil quality and visc grade.
5. Notwithstanding 1. I tend to go along with the "get the wear crap out early" brigade and personally plan to change my oil at 500 miles or maybe 1,000 mls for first change.
6. There can be no downside (aside cost) to decreasing drain interval, but if the factory recommends 10,000 mls, I hesitate to tell them I know better. Maybe 5,000 to have cheap insurance for a vehicle I know is "at the edge". I respect the views on fuel dilution and wear metal analysis as more conclusive than my "trust the man" philosophy. Some really interesting, fact based info on these boards.
7. Is there any way to get an Audi rep to comment and avoid speculation?
02-18-2007, 07:15 PM
#2
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Don't hold your breath waiting for an Audi rep to comment on oil. They don't care
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/53054/audiletter0001.jpg"></center><p>Plus when they say that use of 1 qt per 1000 miles in not out of acceptable range. Nothing short of an engine that is literally spewing oil is out of the acceptable range. Pure Audi BS.
02-18-2007, 07:53 PM
#7
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Realistically
Synthetic oils will easily last 5k miles and more. For those who are really **** about their cars(like most of us), I would change oil and filter, at 1000 miles to get out all the metal particle in solution and put back into the car an oil with undiluted properties. I would next change at 5k and every 5k after that with a new filter. If you want to extend that to every 7k, alright. Oil is cheap! For those of you who don't remember, The recommended oil change interval for the original Mobil 1 was 25K.
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02-18-2007, 07:58 PM
#8
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I have never changed oil without changing the filter EXCEPT
0n my first car. It was a 57 Chevy straight six. IT DID'T HAVE AN OIL FILTER! It went 100 K before we rebuit the engine.
02-18-2007, 08:22 PM
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Well...
I think you explain it quite well, except that you are not considering Audi's motive for 10k intervals, which is their free maint program(former free maint anyway).
It will be interesting to see if that changes now that owners have to pay for oil changes. 10k is much too long for me. I am doing at max of 5k, even with synthetic.
Also, a no-go on the idea of a "poor" quality factory fill oil. It's good stuff, and not a special break-in oil.
It will be interesting to see if that changes now that owners have to pay for oil changes. 10k is much too long for me. I am doing at max of 5k, even with synthetic.
Also, a no-go on the idea of a "poor" quality factory fill oil. It's good stuff, and not a special break-in oil.
02-18-2007, 08:28 PM
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Did you notice...
that part about how the vehicle was "initially driven"? That is telltale. Audi is stating in cloaked language that proper break-in is key. I've never quite heard it said like that, but the wording and context makes it sound like Audi is not endorsing aggressive break-in techniques.