Got out of M3 and into S4
09-25-2011, 10:01 AM
#1
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Got out of M3 and into S4
First off, my disclaimers. Yes this is long, and I apologize. Yes, this is a comparison between a convertible M3 and an Audi S4. Lots of people probably aren't cross-shopping these, and my intent isn't to make that sort of comparison, but rather to document my impressions on the transition. Ideally I would have owned an E90 M3 for a more direct comparison. Yes, I have only had the S4 for a few days, and some of my opinions on features may be wrong due to my lack of experience on how to adjust things. This is only an opinion, and while I feel much of what I say can be backed up with fact, these are ultimately just my own impressions.
First off, you may want to know why I'm doing this. I chose the E93 in Aug 2010 because I loved the way the M3 drove. I drove an E92(coupe), and then was drawn to the E93 because of the awesome hardtop and the great lease deal. The high residual value of the 'vert brought payments below the coupe/sedan, even though it was on average $10k more in MSRP. So I ordered the E93, knowing its strengths and weaknesses, and received it in November. It was everything I had hoped, turned heads, performed well, etc. As time went on, however, I began to realize that I didn't want a sports car. I want something nice that's fun to drive, sure, but looking back over the last 11 months with the M3, I had done nearly nothing with it aside from commute and run errands. While I had some spirited errand running, I began to feel that what I was paying to drive the vehicle didn't justify the level of enjoyment I was getting out of it. In addition, and this may seem a bit counterintuitive, I found that I didn't really like all of the attention I was getting. I loved the fact that the car turned heads, girls would shout, etc, but I didn't really like how it colored people's impressions of me, and that I'd regularly get roped into having to have a friendly chat with someone at the grocery store or gas station to humbly accept praise. I guess I'm just a jerk, or something is wrong with me :-) It's interesting though how a flashy car makes impressions; our front parking row at work is regularly filled with $100k+ cars, but when a guy with a $50k Lotus Elise pulled up, everyone began commenting and wondering aloud what wealthy exec owns it, if some tycoon is here to buy the company, etc. Turned out to be the front desk secretary's boyfriend who came to get her for lunch. But I digress... I think you now get the point of why I did what I did.
Luckily, I got a great lease deal on the E93, so it was surprisingly easy to get out of. I posted it on several websites, and within two days I had two interested parties. I contacted the first one, and within three weeks the transfer was complete. Beats trying to sell a car at a loss after a year!
During that time, I began shopping various vehicles, and decided that what I really wanted was a sport sedan. I also wanted to save at least $200/mo on payment over the M3, without a big upfront cost. I settled on a tuned A4, an S4, or a 335. I ruled out the 335 because I had already owned one prior to the M3, liked the S4 better, and there is a new 3 in the wings that I can't really wait for. So tuned A4 or S4. I then ruled out the A4 because the price is fairly close to the S4 when reasonably equipped (mid 40's vs low 50's), the numbers on the turbo kit upgrades, while impressive in their own right, weren't quite to the level I wanted. Besides, it's inconvenient to hunt down 93 or 100 octane gas, must be hard on that little 2.0, and ultimately you're still driving a 4 cylinder. I then thought I could save some money by purchasing a used S4. I test drove one, a 2011 with 6,000 miles. I was hoping it would feel like a new car still, but it had been smoked in, the grey/black seats had a ring of dirt around the driver *** area, and overall just felt like someone's leftovers. It was a prestige, and the asking price was in line with the moderately equipped premium plus S4s that I had been looking at. I ultimately decided that I'd rather have a new car than sloppy seconds with lane assist or whatever. It's a shame that the dealer didn't put more work into presenting that car, it turned me off from looking at used any further.
There were only four or five S4s in the entire western US that satisfied my needs. Of those, two were ideal, with the right combo of features and price, and one in particular was the best. As luck would have it, both were relatively close to the person assuming my M3 lease, and the dealer with the most ideal car was practically on his door step. So I drove the M3 down from Utah to southern California, parked it at the Audi dealership, negotiated a sale on the S4 I wanted, then called the lease assumer to pick up my old M3. Pretty slick, especially considering that I got confirmation from BMWFS to hand over the car while driving down! Otherwise I was going to leave the M3 with my inlaws for a few days, who also lived somewhat close. On top of all of this good luck, when the new leasee arrived, he greeted my salesman, who turned out to be his cousin. Weird. Was this all orchestrated by a higher power? Perhaps evil Audi scientists?
Ok, on to the comparisons.
Transmission: I ultimately decided to switch to manual, so most of this doesn't apply to my decision. Audi's manual transmission feels nice, but the shifter needs some work. It's tall and requires a good amount of rowing. I plan on installing a short shifter. I also test drove an S-tronic in dynamic, and having a DCT M3 I can say that the DCT blows the S-tronic out of the water. I'm sure that technically they both do their job equally well, shifting quickly, and perhaps some of the difference is due more to the drivetrain as a whole, but the DCT has truly snappy shifts. You're actually thrown in your seat, tires chirping, from 1->2 and 2->3, as though you're in a movie and just hit the afterburner The S-tronic seemed to "slide" into the next gear a bit more. More refined I suppose. From a user interface perspective, the S-tronic also loses points for looking and functioning like a normal automatic; I loved the fact that the M3 defaulted to manual, and that there was no specific +/- gate you had to use specifically for manual mode. The stick does not look like an auto. If I were choosing a vehicle based on DCT vs S-tronic, I'd say DCT all the way. Ultimately they both lost points to the manual for control, the manual has infinitely more control during launch and actually felt better to me during acceleration than the S-tronics I tested.
Engine: I have to go with the 3.0 TFSI on this one. Back when I was ordering an M3, I did all the math, was a huge proponent of the S65 V8 engine, and from a technical perspective it's great. It also sounds amazing. I drew up charts showing that in a drag race the M3 had 20-50% more torque to the wheels than the 335 at all times, which I still believe, but ultimately what makes Audi's engine (and also the 335's) better for me is that you feel the torque more, wherever you are. This makes it funner to drive. Let me be clear that I do think the M3 puts more torque to the ground when it's in its power band, but it requires you to drive technically to enjoy, and the power sort of rolls on as you push the rev limiter rather than being immediately felt. The technical driving requirement is complicated somewhat by the DCT, as it puts limits on what you can do. For example, accelerating from 3300rpm to 8400rpm in 2nd (i.e. you are cruising at 25mph and want to go fast) feels relatively slow in the M3, but at 3300rpm you can't switch to 1st in order to get to 5100rpm and utilize that high revving engine to accelerate; the DCT won't let you. There are a few such caveats. So in short, S65 is a better performer, 3.0 TFSI is a funner daily driver.
Interior: This one goes to the S4 for me, but I admit it is the most preference-based category. Both are very nice. The BMW interiors tend to feel dated and simple, though still classic and upscale. The materials are nice and feel good, but are held back in some respects by little things like the tiny monochrome instrument LCD and relatively flat, basic looking dash area. The cup holders seem like an afterthought. The S4 interior seems more modern and advanced. They got the center console right, complete with very nice cupholders. Most of all, the Alcantara seats are great. I love sitting on a breatheable material again, and heated seats that are upholstered with a plush fabric are a rare treat (had a Jetta many years ago with heated fabric). Also, the interior of the S4 at freeway speeds was much quieter. On the downside for the Audi, the seats aren't as adjustable as the BMW ones... at least I have not yet found a way to adjust the side bolsters or headrest :-) The steering wheel is not as thick as the M3's, I miss it slightly.
MMI vs iDrive: This is a tossup to me. I had the old iDrive, and the MMI would win hands down over that, but the new iDrive is a pleasure. iDrive wins in navigation; the screen is larger and offers satellite maps. Text and information is appropriately sized. In contrast, MMI's navigation feels cartoonish and the small screen feels cramped. All of the text is huge and not much seems to be displayed as a consequence of small screen and large features. The roads look as though they were drawn with a thick brush in MS paint. Route guidance was equally good on both devices in LA, although the iDrive did not reroute me as readily as the MMI did based on traffic, I ended up getting on a backed up freeway even though it was clear from the iDrive traffic info that the machine knew that there was a backup on this freeway and a clear freeway nearly adjacent. The MMI on the other hand changed my route twice according to traffic conditions in a similar situation. I'm sure this may have been adjustable/tweakable. Where MMI makes up for the loss in nav display is in its greater integration and slightly more intuitive to use. By integration I mean that they make use of the relatively large instrument cluster LCD, as well as more things being displayed on the MMI, for example heated seat level is tuned on the MMI when you push the heated seat button, rather than just having an LED on a button that you push several times.
In all, as I was driving home to Utah I found myself thinking several times that the S4 is the perfect car, despite the few minor nitpicks I have about the Nav display and steering wheel. Sporty enough to hang with sports cars, reserved and practical enough to be a daily driver. Performance wise I think it's at least as fast as my E93, and probably fits in the small gap between the E93 and E92/E90 M3s. I also like the fact that I can upgrade the performance for relatively little money if I get bored with it. I am very happy, excited even, to own the S4 and would highly recommend it. Stay tuned for pics.
First off, you may want to know why I'm doing this. I chose the E93 in Aug 2010 because I loved the way the M3 drove. I drove an E92(coupe), and then was drawn to the E93 because of the awesome hardtop and the great lease deal. The high residual value of the 'vert brought payments below the coupe/sedan, even though it was on average $10k more in MSRP. So I ordered the E93, knowing its strengths and weaknesses, and received it in November. It was everything I had hoped, turned heads, performed well, etc. As time went on, however, I began to realize that I didn't want a sports car. I want something nice that's fun to drive, sure, but looking back over the last 11 months with the M3, I had done nearly nothing with it aside from commute and run errands. While I had some spirited errand running, I began to feel that what I was paying to drive the vehicle didn't justify the level of enjoyment I was getting out of it. In addition, and this may seem a bit counterintuitive, I found that I didn't really like all of the attention I was getting. I loved the fact that the car turned heads, girls would shout, etc, but I didn't really like how it colored people's impressions of me, and that I'd regularly get roped into having to have a friendly chat with someone at the grocery store or gas station to humbly accept praise. I guess I'm just a jerk, or something is wrong with me :-) It's interesting though how a flashy car makes impressions; our front parking row at work is regularly filled with $100k+ cars, but when a guy with a $50k Lotus Elise pulled up, everyone began commenting and wondering aloud what wealthy exec owns it, if some tycoon is here to buy the company, etc. Turned out to be the front desk secretary's boyfriend who came to get her for lunch. But I digress... I think you now get the point of why I did what I did.
Luckily, I got a great lease deal on the E93, so it was surprisingly easy to get out of. I posted it on several websites, and within two days I had two interested parties. I contacted the first one, and within three weeks the transfer was complete. Beats trying to sell a car at a loss after a year!
During that time, I began shopping various vehicles, and decided that what I really wanted was a sport sedan. I also wanted to save at least $200/mo on payment over the M3, without a big upfront cost. I settled on a tuned A4, an S4, or a 335. I ruled out the 335 because I had already owned one prior to the M3, liked the S4 better, and there is a new 3 in the wings that I can't really wait for. So tuned A4 or S4. I then ruled out the A4 because the price is fairly close to the S4 when reasonably equipped (mid 40's vs low 50's), the numbers on the turbo kit upgrades, while impressive in their own right, weren't quite to the level I wanted. Besides, it's inconvenient to hunt down 93 or 100 octane gas, must be hard on that little 2.0, and ultimately you're still driving a 4 cylinder. I then thought I could save some money by purchasing a used S4. I test drove one, a 2011 with 6,000 miles. I was hoping it would feel like a new car still, but it had been smoked in, the grey/black seats had a ring of dirt around the driver *** area, and overall just felt like someone's leftovers. It was a prestige, and the asking price was in line with the moderately equipped premium plus S4s that I had been looking at. I ultimately decided that I'd rather have a new car than sloppy seconds with lane assist or whatever. It's a shame that the dealer didn't put more work into presenting that car, it turned me off from looking at used any further.
There were only four or five S4s in the entire western US that satisfied my needs. Of those, two were ideal, with the right combo of features and price, and one in particular was the best. As luck would have it, both were relatively close to the person assuming my M3 lease, and the dealer with the most ideal car was practically on his door step. So I drove the M3 down from Utah to southern California, parked it at the Audi dealership, negotiated a sale on the S4 I wanted, then called the lease assumer to pick up my old M3. Pretty slick, especially considering that I got confirmation from BMWFS to hand over the car while driving down! Otherwise I was going to leave the M3 with my inlaws for a few days, who also lived somewhat close. On top of all of this good luck, when the new leasee arrived, he greeted my salesman, who turned out to be his cousin. Weird. Was this all orchestrated by a higher power? Perhaps evil Audi scientists?
Ok, on to the comparisons.
Transmission: I ultimately decided to switch to manual, so most of this doesn't apply to my decision. Audi's manual transmission feels nice, but the shifter needs some work. It's tall and requires a good amount of rowing. I plan on installing a short shifter. I also test drove an S-tronic in dynamic, and having a DCT M3 I can say that the DCT blows the S-tronic out of the water. I'm sure that technically they both do their job equally well, shifting quickly, and perhaps some of the difference is due more to the drivetrain as a whole, but the DCT has truly snappy shifts. You're actually thrown in your seat, tires chirping, from 1->2 and 2->3, as though you're in a movie and just hit the afterburner The S-tronic seemed to "slide" into the next gear a bit more. More refined I suppose. From a user interface perspective, the S-tronic also loses points for looking and functioning like a normal automatic; I loved the fact that the M3 defaulted to manual, and that there was no specific +/- gate you had to use specifically for manual mode. The stick does not look like an auto. If I were choosing a vehicle based on DCT vs S-tronic, I'd say DCT all the way. Ultimately they both lost points to the manual for control, the manual has infinitely more control during launch and actually felt better to me during acceleration than the S-tronics I tested.
Engine: I have to go with the 3.0 TFSI on this one. Back when I was ordering an M3, I did all the math, was a huge proponent of the S65 V8 engine, and from a technical perspective it's great. It also sounds amazing. I drew up charts showing that in a drag race the M3 had 20-50% more torque to the wheels than the 335 at all times, which I still believe, but ultimately what makes Audi's engine (and also the 335's) better for me is that you feel the torque more, wherever you are. This makes it funner to drive. Let me be clear that I do think the M3 puts more torque to the ground when it's in its power band, but it requires you to drive technically to enjoy, and the power sort of rolls on as you push the rev limiter rather than being immediately felt. The technical driving requirement is complicated somewhat by the DCT, as it puts limits on what you can do. For example, accelerating from 3300rpm to 8400rpm in 2nd (i.e. you are cruising at 25mph and want to go fast) feels relatively slow in the M3, but at 3300rpm you can't switch to 1st in order to get to 5100rpm and utilize that high revving engine to accelerate; the DCT won't let you. There are a few such caveats. So in short, S65 is a better performer, 3.0 TFSI is a funner daily driver.
Interior: This one goes to the S4 for me, but I admit it is the most preference-based category. Both are very nice. The BMW interiors tend to feel dated and simple, though still classic and upscale. The materials are nice and feel good, but are held back in some respects by little things like the tiny monochrome instrument LCD and relatively flat, basic looking dash area. The cup holders seem like an afterthought. The S4 interior seems more modern and advanced. They got the center console right, complete with very nice cupholders. Most of all, the Alcantara seats are great. I love sitting on a breatheable material again, and heated seats that are upholstered with a plush fabric are a rare treat (had a Jetta many years ago with heated fabric). Also, the interior of the S4 at freeway speeds was much quieter. On the downside for the Audi, the seats aren't as adjustable as the BMW ones... at least I have not yet found a way to adjust the side bolsters or headrest :-) The steering wheel is not as thick as the M3's, I miss it slightly.
MMI vs iDrive: This is a tossup to me. I had the old iDrive, and the MMI would win hands down over that, but the new iDrive is a pleasure. iDrive wins in navigation; the screen is larger and offers satellite maps. Text and information is appropriately sized. In contrast, MMI's navigation feels cartoonish and the small screen feels cramped. All of the text is huge and not much seems to be displayed as a consequence of small screen and large features. The roads look as though they were drawn with a thick brush in MS paint. Route guidance was equally good on both devices in LA, although the iDrive did not reroute me as readily as the MMI did based on traffic, I ended up getting on a backed up freeway even though it was clear from the iDrive traffic info that the machine knew that there was a backup on this freeway and a clear freeway nearly adjacent. The MMI on the other hand changed my route twice according to traffic conditions in a similar situation. I'm sure this may have been adjustable/tweakable. Where MMI makes up for the loss in nav display is in its greater integration and slightly more intuitive to use. By integration I mean that they make use of the relatively large instrument cluster LCD, as well as more things being displayed on the MMI, for example heated seat level is tuned on the MMI when you push the heated seat button, rather than just having an LED on a button that you push several times.
In all, as I was driving home to Utah I found myself thinking several times that the S4 is the perfect car, despite the few minor nitpicks I have about the Nav display and steering wheel. Sporty enough to hang with sports cars, reserved and practical enough to be a daily driver. Performance wise I think it's at least as fast as my E93, and probably fits in the small gap between the E93 and E92/E90 M3s. I also like the fact that I can upgrade the performance for relatively little money if I get bored with it. I am very happy, excited even, to own the S4 and would highly recommend it. Stay tuned for pics.
09-25-2011, 11:54 AM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Great writeup and perpsective, I don't mind long posts at all if there is something worth reading, and yours is. Great pics too, though I was thinking that the S4 looked like a Quartz, it really looks light in those pics compared to those I have seen in person.
09-25-2011, 11:58 AM
#4
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, the salesman pointed out that the new grey is 'Monsoon', which is actually a shade darker than Quartz. They had two side by side and it is in fact only slightly darker. It is also lighter than Meteor Grey.
09-25-2011, 02:40 PM
#7
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
I'm in Lehi. I haven't really pushed this particular car since I'm under 1k miles, but so far I don't feel a significant difference at 4500 ft. The E93 on the other hand was noticeable. The best I can describe it is that at sea level the tires felt like they do when they are a little wet at 4500 ft, where it's easy for the rear end to break loose if you're starting and turning. The S4 definitely has an edge at altitude.
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09-25-2011, 03:55 PM
#8
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Seems like most of the criticisms you have of the M3 would have been addressed with a Dinan chipped 335i. Personally, I think the e90/2/3 M3 is one of the most overrated cars out there.
Congratulations on seeing the light
Congratulations on seeing the light
09-25-2011, 04:12 PM
#9
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Great Post! Being that i was aiming at a E93, but missed the great lease deals. So chose to stay with Audi and grab the S4 instead of settling for the 335. This post somewhat puts me to ease in that decision, since i sometimes see the M3 and still wonder. lol.
But do you have any plans on running a tune on the S4? I want to see how you compare the S4 and M3 once the S4 is tuned, since the power levels at the wheels is very similar when the S4 has a tune on it.
But do you have any plans on running a tune on the S4? I want to see how you compare the S4 and M3 once the S4 is tuned, since the power levels at the wheels is very similar when the S4 has a tune on it.
