ECU mods voiding warranty for ac compressor pulley exploding
03-12-2018, 05:03 PM
#12
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thank you for the follow-up and I am sorry for your bad fortune. I truly am. That said (and I am sorry to say it), it seems this played out exactly how I and others here predicted it would.
I am also sorry to hear this experience has turned you off to the Audi brand. But, the fact is that it has been well understood in the automotive community for decades—hell, longer—that tuning a car voids its warranty, including portions of it that customers believe apply to things wholly unrelated to whatever portion of the vehicle they tuned. A New Vehicle Warranty is always worded in legal favor of the manufacturer, and it is therefore (intentionally) very easy for an auto maker to point at your aftermarket coilover suspension for example and say “no we aren’t covering your claim for motor mounts, we never designed the car to tolerate the damping characteristics of those shocks and it is possible they shook the motor loose.” The burden of proving otherwise then suddenly falls on you, the customer.
My point is: if you think that you are going to have a different warranty claims experience on a modified car with any other auto manufacturer on the planet, prepare yourself to be as disappointed as you are today because 30+ years of experience says, “they all do that.”
At least you got a discount on the repair bill. Sounds like the dealer went to bat for you after all—over a grand of discount is no small gesture and that definitely came out of their margin.
I am also sorry to hear this experience has turned you off to the Audi brand. But, the fact is that it has been well understood in the automotive community for decades—hell, longer—that tuning a car voids its warranty, including portions of it that customers believe apply to things wholly unrelated to whatever portion of the vehicle they tuned. A New Vehicle Warranty is always worded in legal favor of the manufacturer, and it is therefore (intentionally) very easy for an auto maker to point at your aftermarket coilover suspension for example and say “no we aren’t covering your claim for motor mounts, we never designed the car to tolerate the damping characteristics of those shocks and it is possible they shook the motor loose.” The burden of proving otherwise then suddenly falls on you, the customer.
My point is: if you think that you are going to have a different warranty claims experience on a modified car with any other auto manufacturer on the planet, prepare yourself to be as disappointed as you are today because 30+ years of experience says, “they all do that.”
At least you got a discount on the repair bill. Sounds like the dealer went to bat for you after all—over a grand of discount is no small gesture and that definitely came out of their margin.
Last edited by mplsbrian; 03-12-2018 at 05:09 PM.
03-12-2018, 07:43 PM
#13
+1
I hate to pile on, but why -- given what is very widespread knowledge -- does this kind of thing keep happening, over and over and over?
We leased a BMW X3 (in 2005), when the lease was up (36 months, 15K/yr) the dealer told us that the turn in inspection found that we had replaced the OEM tires with a set that was not compliant with what was an OEM offering. Four new tires were almost $1,000 (and we were leasing a new 2008 X3). The car came with "H" rated grand touring all season tires (why do the Germans do this?). We had replaced the tires with ULTRA HIGH-PERFORMANCE all-season tires (W rated) that -- according to Tirerack -- were superior in every aspect to the OEM tires. The "inspector" was, in the end, convinced that we had turned the car back in with better (yet still all-seasons) tires than BMW put on from the get-go. We dodged a $1,000 bullet.
Since then, and you'll think I'm a wimp, I sort - of get the dealer's buy-in before I do anything to the car. This time, we purchased (not leased) two 2018 Audi S cars. We feel a bit safer that we won't get dinged by an inspector from the lease turn-in "hired gun" since we will actually own the car when we trade it in.
With sympathy for anyone who mods her/his Audi and then makes a warranty claim: Are you living under a rock? The outcome that has you pissed would have been no different had you done the same thing with a BMW or Mercedes, etc.
Audi reacted and behaved exactly, perfectly, and predictably as they should. Any other response could (would) have been infinitely expensive for the company; yes, you were a casualty, but it was, in the end, a self-inflicted wound.
Take heed, be satisfied that your experience and your willingness to post here was a teachable moment.
To everyone else -- let this be a lesson.
I hate to pile on, but why -- given what is very widespread knowledge -- does this kind of thing keep happening, over and over and over?
We leased a BMW X3 (in 2005), when the lease was up (36 months, 15K/yr) the dealer told us that the turn in inspection found that we had replaced the OEM tires with a set that was not compliant with what was an OEM offering. Four new tires were almost $1,000 (and we were leasing a new 2008 X3). The car came with "H" rated grand touring all season tires (why do the Germans do this?). We had replaced the tires with ULTRA HIGH-PERFORMANCE all-season tires (W rated) that -- according to Tirerack -- were superior in every aspect to the OEM tires. The "inspector" was, in the end, convinced that we had turned the car back in with better (yet still all-seasons) tires than BMW put on from the get-go. We dodged a $1,000 bullet.
Since then, and you'll think I'm a wimp, I sort - of get the dealer's buy-in before I do anything to the car. This time, we purchased (not leased) two 2018 Audi S cars. We feel a bit safer that we won't get dinged by an inspector from the lease turn-in "hired gun" since we will actually own the car when we trade it in.
With sympathy for anyone who mods her/his Audi and then makes a warranty claim: Are you living under a rock? The outcome that has you pissed would have been no different had you done the same thing with a BMW or Mercedes, etc.
Audi reacted and behaved exactly, perfectly, and predictably as they should. Any other response could (would) have been infinitely expensive for the company; yes, you were a casualty, but it was, in the end, a self-inflicted wound.
Take heed, be satisfied that your experience and your willingness to post here was a teachable moment.
To everyone else -- let this be a lesson.
Last edited by markcincinnati; 03-12-2018 at 08:00 PM.
03-12-2018, 08:07 PM
#14
AudiWorld Senior Member
Almost forgot to mention that the factory warranty on your 2016 already “expired”—or rather, you voided significant portions of it yourself by modifying the ECU—so if your intention is to sell the car, there may be some emotional or financial “risk mitigation” advantages to doing that now before anything else under the hood or relating to/adjacent to the powertrain break and causes you further woe.
You do probably have a legal obligation to disclose that the car was modified and that the warranty is in jeapordy/at the buyer's risk when you sell it. I don’t know this for sure because I don’t know Arizona laws, but in my state the buyer could have grounds to sue if the vehicle was purchased on a good faith belief that the warranty is valid—and they might try to arbitrate against you just as you've contemplated arbitrating against Audi if they find themselves with a lunched transmission early into their ownership. (A related lesson, often also learned the hard way: modified cars are usually worth less $ than stock ones on the open market.)
Whether you ever buy another Audi again or not is, of course, your choice to make but I suspect you’d be in this same boat if you chipped a Subaru too.
You do probably have a legal obligation to disclose that the car was modified and that the warranty is in jeapordy/at the buyer's risk when you sell it. I don’t know this for sure because I don’t know Arizona laws, but in my state the buyer could have grounds to sue if the vehicle was purchased on a good faith belief that the warranty is valid—and they might try to arbitrate against you just as you've contemplated arbitrating against Audi if they find themselves with a lunched transmission early into their ownership. (A related lesson, often also learned the hard way: modified cars are usually worth less $ than stock ones on the open market.)
Whether you ever buy another Audi again or not is, of course, your choice to make but I suspect you’d be in this same boat if you chipped a Subaru too.
Last edited by mplsbrian; 03-13-2018 at 06:31 AM.
03-13-2018, 11:57 AM
#15
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When I bought the 2013 S4, my Sales Person hooked me up with a specific Service Writer. He said with the ECU modified, he could “push” a warranty repair through, if the required repair was not directly related to the ECU mod.
When I bought the 2016 S4 from the same Sales Person, he did not tell me that Service Writers could no longer push a drive train warranty through even if the required repair had no relashionship with an ECU mod.
The FACT of the issue is, with 40 years of mechanical experience, I know for certain that the pulley’s failure had nothing to do with the ECU mod.
The REALITY of the issue is, Audi has worded their warranty so they always come out on top if a vehicle was modified even if the failure was not related to the modification.
Thanks to everyone that replied.
When I bought the 2016 S4 from the same Sales Person, he did not tell me that Service Writers could no longer push a drive train warranty through even if the required repair had no relashionship with an ECU mod.
The FACT of the issue is, with 40 years of mechanical experience, I know for certain that the pulley’s failure had nothing to do with the ECU mod.
The REALITY of the issue is, Audi has worded their warranty so they always come out on top if a vehicle was modified even if the failure was not related to the modification.
Thanks to everyone that replied.
03-13-2018, 12:33 PM
#16
AudiWorld Member
A little surprised nobody has mentioned the Magnuson-Moss Warranty ACT,
Best explained here: Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - dummies
"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."
I'm a little new to Audi, but the TD1 flagging seems pretty excessive without any recourse... Which sounds illegal; something to think about.
Best explained here: Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - dummies
"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."
I'm a little new to Audi, but the TD1 flagging seems pretty excessive without any recourse... Which sounds illegal; something to think about.
03-13-2018, 01:07 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
Simply advice from my buddy: "You pay to play".
Words to live by. If you want zero warranty issues, keep it stock. If you modify, then you risk being declined, regardless of the brand.
Words to live by. If you want zero warranty issues, keep it stock. If you modify, then you risk being declined, regardless of the brand.
03-13-2018, 02:08 PM
#18
Some folks go ahead and delay mods until after the OEM warranty expires. What is wrong with that approach?
Of course, if you are willing to risk the warranty it is your money and time and you should "drive it like you live." The issue becomes when you mod and then make a warranty claim only to find out that the mod (even though seemingly unrelated) is the reason the claim is denied. Then to add insult to injury as the saying goes you are flagged as TD1. I wonder if you had an issue and paid to have it repaired (using OEM parts) and did NOT make a warranty claim if you would still be flagged TD1 (I mean how would they know)? In essence "no harm no foul" insofar as the OEM warranty is concerned. Or you could, if such things exist, get a mod from a company that "holds you harmless" from a TD1 flagging.
Doesn't Polestar (Volvo) now "mod" without impacting the OEM warranty?
Doesn't "M" and now "AMG" and what used to be called quattro GMBH (now "Audi Sport") offer mods that keep the warranty intact? Isn't an RS3 a fully warranted vehicle that certainly seems to be a "modded" version of an S3? Why not go through the front-door? As someone said, "You pay to play."
Ok, so I'm not too keen on paying $15,000 over the cost of an S5 for an RS5, but there are probably folks who for the peace of mind of the OEM warranty would call that a bargain.
What is a warranty after all? Isn't it simply a "mark up" over the selling price of the car without a warranty? It's all like buying insurance -- and like insurance, you don't get your money back if you don't use it, but if you need it, whew! If you want to "run naked" mod away. I know the OP is bummed and pissed and probably there could be some scientific proof offered that A didn't cause B. But the "deal" is -- "do it this way and you're good to go, do it the other way and it's out of your pocket." Is the OP certain that BMW would have been any less strict?
I wanted an A4 -- but I wanted the ***** that more horsepower and torque offer. I could have modded the A4 2.0T -- bye bye warranty. Hmm, I says to myself, "Why not just buy an S4 instead?" After all a modded A4 (without warranty) probably actually costs more than an S4. I know, I know, the argument then becomes -- at the moment -- there is nothing higher in the food chain than an S4 presently, so whaddya do?
Get an M3, I guess.
At least it would have a warranty.
Of course, if you are willing to risk the warranty it is your money and time and you should "drive it like you live." The issue becomes when you mod and then make a warranty claim only to find out that the mod (even though seemingly unrelated) is the reason the claim is denied. Then to add insult to injury as the saying goes you are flagged as TD1. I wonder if you had an issue and paid to have it repaired (using OEM parts) and did NOT make a warranty claim if you would still be flagged TD1 (I mean how would they know)? In essence "no harm no foul" insofar as the OEM warranty is concerned. Or you could, if such things exist, get a mod from a company that "holds you harmless" from a TD1 flagging.
Doesn't Polestar (Volvo) now "mod" without impacting the OEM warranty?
Doesn't "M" and now "AMG" and what used to be called quattro GMBH (now "Audi Sport") offer mods that keep the warranty intact? Isn't an RS3 a fully warranted vehicle that certainly seems to be a "modded" version of an S3? Why not go through the front-door? As someone said, "You pay to play."
Ok, so I'm not too keen on paying $15,000 over the cost of an S5 for an RS5, but there are probably folks who for the peace of mind of the OEM warranty would call that a bargain.
What is a warranty after all? Isn't it simply a "mark up" over the selling price of the car without a warranty? It's all like buying insurance -- and like insurance, you don't get your money back if you don't use it, but if you need it, whew! If you want to "run naked" mod away. I know the OP is bummed and pissed and probably there could be some scientific proof offered that A didn't cause B. But the "deal" is -- "do it this way and you're good to go, do it the other way and it's out of your pocket." Is the OP certain that BMW would have been any less strict?
I wanted an A4 -- but I wanted the ***** that more horsepower and torque offer. I could have modded the A4 2.0T -- bye bye warranty. Hmm, I says to myself, "Why not just buy an S4 instead?" After all a modded A4 (without warranty) probably actually costs more than an S4. I know, I know, the argument then becomes -- at the moment -- there is nothing higher in the food chain than an S4 presently, so whaddya do?
Get an M3, I guess.
At least it would have a warranty.
03-13-2018, 03:51 PM
#19
AudiWorld Senior Member
Except, that's the easy part of the law. The hard part of the law is finding $3000+ to pay a lawyer to try the question, when the repair bill is $400 less than that. Or the alternative, which is to bring a case pro se knowing full well you'll be going up against expert witnesses who probably have 41 years of experience, and probably not just in general mechanical knowledge but on automotive AC compressor pulleys specifically--all called by a team of lawyers who get paid to fight MMWA claims all day long.
That's how the Mag Moss act works in practice, and it becomes almost not worth your time unless you are dealing with a completely lunched motor/tranny that renders a $60,000 vehicle inoperable and the manufacturer is trying to deny that claim because you put window tint on it.
Last edited by mplsbrian; 03-13-2018 at 03:55 PM.
03-13-2018, 04:17 PM
#20
AudiWorld Senior Member
Or you could, if such things exist, get a mod from a company that "holds you harmless" from a TD1 flagging.
Doesn't Polestar (Volvo) now "mod" without impacting the OEM warranty?
Doesn't "M" and now "AMG" and what used to be called quattro GMBH (now "Audi Sport") offer mods that keep the warranty intact? Isn't an RS3 a fully warranted vehicle that certainly seems to be a "modded" version of an S3? Why not go through the front-door? As someone said, "You pay to play."
Doesn't Polestar (Volvo) now "mod" without impacting the OEM warranty?
Doesn't "M" and now "AMG" and what used to be called quattro GMBH (now "Audi Sport") offer mods that keep the warranty intact? Isn't an RS3 a fully warranted vehicle that certainly seems to be a "modded" version of an S3? Why not go through the front-door? As someone said, "You pay to play."
As for Audi/accesories, their own warranty page (scroll to FAQs) says that Audi genuine accessories are covered. For our cars I guess that means that if you buy some rubber floor mats and they melt while driving through the Cincinnati desert, they'll give you new ones...but for cars like the S3 where you can get a resonator delete kit or illuminated door sills for example, this does indeed seem to have some theoretical value. I assume (but do not know for sure) that the way the warranty works for self-install parts is if the part is defective they pay, if the part works was but installed incorrectly (or defects arise as a result of improper install) you're stuck with the bill.
It'd be sweet if "Audi accessories" included an actual performance parts catalog, like you can get for Corvette.
Last edited by mplsbrian; 03-13-2018 at 04:21 PM.