Next Chapter In My AoA Warranty Saga:
02-13-2003, 10:05 AM
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Next Chapter In My AoA Warranty Saga:
On instructions from my lawyer in preparation for my lawsuit, I filed an official complaint against Audi with the Florida DOACS. Since this is public info, and will hopefully be sent to Audi, he tells me I can post it here and see what you guys think. Here's the email confirmation the DOACS sent me:
Date: Thu Feb 13 13:50:05 EST 2003
Business or Person Complained Against:
Audi Of America
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
Phone: 800 822 2834
Product or Service Involved: 2001 Audi S4
Cost of Product: $28,000
Did you sign a contract or any other similar papers: No
Are you presently represented by a lawyer?: No
Have you filed suit in court?: No
Explain Your Complaint Fully:
I bought a 2001 Audi S4 last September, with 10,000 miles on it. This car apparently has no warranty due to it being totaled by the previous owners insurance company. I bought it with a rebuilt title, and found out that the warranty was gone. I called Audi of America (AoA) and spoke with a customer advocate who instructed me on an in depth procedure that involved getting the title cleared by my state, which would then clear my totaled status with Audi, and my warranty would be reinstated. At various stages of this 2 month process I called back to clarify points, and each of the 3 times I called in I got essentially the same story. The final step for me was to get the car inspected by the Florida AoA rep, who would then make a decision about my warranty. The rep immediately contacted AoA to call me and tell me that it was Audi policy to never reinstate warranties. The last person I spoke with who told me to get it inspected apologized to me for the "misunderstanding" and told me the news. She would not tell me why everyone (including herself) previously knew about this procedure, or that they knew other people who had done it. She told me that she could not tell me where she got the information in the first place, but that it was simply wrong, and was never AoA policy. She also told me that her supervisor would not be able to tell me anything either, which I confirmed the next day. I tried to resolve this with Audi in a civil manner, but even the supervisor I spoke with was rude and instructed me to sue Audi if I had a problem with their policy. I am not concerned with Audi policy, seeing as how flexible it is depending on Audis needs. My concern is the implied warranty for my S4, and the fact that the radio will not be fixed because of a replaced quarter panel.
The main issue to me here is the fact that Audi pulled my warranty due to an artificial standard of "totaling" from an insurance company. They do not know why it was totalled, and they say they do not care. I know that cars can be totaled with no damage at all, so it seems strange to me that they can pull warranty on a car that doesn't even have damage. In my case, the car did have minor body panel damage, but nothing even remotely close to even 50% of the value of the car, the traditional totaling level. It only had a dented quarter panel! If the car had been in the exact same accident, and was kept by the owner and repaired in the exact same manner as it actually was, it would have a warranty right now. Basically what they are telling me is that since I am a new owner, they will not transfer that warranty. I own 2 2001 S4s, but AoA has flat out lied to me on numerous occasions, and refuses to arbitrate this matter. At this point, I'm mad enough about being lied to by Audi to pay out of my own pocket to sue for my warranty back. How do I proceed?
What Would Satisfy Your Complaint?:
I would be satisfied if Audi would reinstate the remainder of the warranty on my S4
Do you authorize DOACS to send a copy of complaint to the business
you are complaining against or any other government agency for
purposes of mediation, investigation or enforcement?: Yes
Have you read 'FALSE OFFICIAL STATEMENTS' provided in the
Florida Statutes?: Yes
Have you read the paragraph regarding the role of the Department
of Agriculture and Consumer Services in providing assistance to
you?: Yes
Well that's it. The short version atleast. If anybody has any constructive comments, help, anything...I would love to hear it. TIA guys...
Peace,
Eric
Date: Thu Feb 13 13:50:05 EST 2003
Business or Person Complained Against:
Audi Of America
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
Phone: 800 822 2834
Product or Service Involved: 2001 Audi S4
Cost of Product: $28,000
Did you sign a contract or any other similar papers: No
Are you presently represented by a lawyer?: No
Have you filed suit in court?: No
Explain Your Complaint Fully:
I bought a 2001 Audi S4 last September, with 10,000 miles on it. This car apparently has no warranty due to it being totaled by the previous owners insurance company. I bought it with a rebuilt title, and found out that the warranty was gone. I called Audi of America (AoA) and spoke with a customer advocate who instructed me on an in depth procedure that involved getting the title cleared by my state, which would then clear my totaled status with Audi, and my warranty would be reinstated. At various stages of this 2 month process I called back to clarify points, and each of the 3 times I called in I got essentially the same story. The final step for me was to get the car inspected by the Florida AoA rep, who would then make a decision about my warranty. The rep immediately contacted AoA to call me and tell me that it was Audi policy to never reinstate warranties. The last person I spoke with who told me to get it inspected apologized to me for the "misunderstanding" and told me the news. She would not tell me why everyone (including herself) previously knew about this procedure, or that they knew other people who had done it. She told me that she could not tell me where she got the information in the first place, but that it was simply wrong, and was never AoA policy. She also told me that her supervisor would not be able to tell me anything either, which I confirmed the next day. I tried to resolve this with Audi in a civil manner, but even the supervisor I spoke with was rude and instructed me to sue Audi if I had a problem with their policy. I am not concerned with Audi policy, seeing as how flexible it is depending on Audis needs. My concern is the implied warranty for my S4, and the fact that the radio will not be fixed because of a replaced quarter panel.
The main issue to me here is the fact that Audi pulled my warranty due to an artificial standard of "totaling" from an insurance company. They do not know why it was totalled, and they say they do not care. I know that cars can be totaled with no damage at all, so it seems strange to me that they can pull warranty on a car that doesn't even have damage. In my case, the car did have minor body panel damage, but nothing even remotely close to even 50% of the value of the car, the traditional totaling level. It only had a dented quarter panel! If the car had been in the exact same accident, and was kept by the owner and repaired in the exact same manner as it actually was, it would have a warranty right now. Basically what they are telling me is that since I am a new owner, they will not transfer that warranty. I own 2 2001 S4s, but AoA has flat out lied to me on numerous occasions, and refuses to arbitrate this matter. At this point, I'm mad enough about being lied to by Audi to pay out of my own pocket to sue for my warranty back. How do I proceed?
What Would Satisfy Your Complaint?:
I would be satisfied if Audi would reinstate the remainder of the warranty on my S4
Do you authorize DOACS to send a copy of complaint to the business
you are complaining against or any other government agency for
purposes of mediation, investigation or enforcement?: Yes
Have you read 'FALSE OFFICIAL STATEMENTS' provided in the
Florida Statutes?: Yes
Have you read the paragraph regarding the role of the Department
of Agriculture and Consumer Services in providing assistance to
you?: Yes
Well that's it. The short version atleast. If anybody has any constructive comments, help, anything...I would love to hear it. TIA guys...
Peace,
Eric
02-13-2003, 10:25 AM
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several ways:
1) stolen and not recovered within 30 days. It doesn't have to have ANY damage. The car can be stolen by your neighbor, driven across the street into his garage, and recovered 31 days later, instant total. This is the only way to do it without any damage. For minor damage it gets better:
2) say you have a classic car, and the insurance company can't find a replacement for a damaged part: totalled.
3) If you have as part of your policy that they cut you a check if the damage is over a certain amount. Say your S4 gets hit in the side like mine, the automatic appraiser programs list all the parts to be replaced (including the ECU) and that will easilly put the total over your limit. Of course the shop that buys the car won't replace the perfectly good ECU, they just replace the dented body panel, paint it up, and sell the car. (like they did with mine)
In the end, there are no standards for totalling a car. They can do it for any reason they want. The percentage damage rules are just guidelines, and are not always used. Also, any time an insurance company takes posession of the car and cuts a check, they HAVE to total the car by law (in most states atleast). This means that totalling has nothing to do with damage to the car, but rather has to do with the insurance company taking posession. This I've gotten from both insurance company people I talked to and DMV clerks in both massachusetts and florida. Sure knocked my socks off, it's amazing how loose this salvage/rebuilt/totalled title thing is.
2) say you have a classic car, and the insurance company can't find a replacement for a damaged part: totalled.
3) If you have as part of your policy that they cut you a check if the damage is over a certain amount. Say your S4 gets hit in the side like mine, the automatic appraiser programs list all the parts to be replaced (including the ECU) and that will easilly put the total over your limit. Of course the shop that buys the car won't replace the perfectly good ECU, they just replace the dented body panel, paint it up, and sell the car. (like they did with mine)
In the end, there are no standards for totalling a car. They can do it for any reason they want. The percentage damage rules are just guidelines, and are not always used. Also, any time an insurance company takes posession of the car and cuts a check, they HAVE to total the car by law (in most states atleast). This means that totalling has nothing to do with damage to the car, but rather has to do with the insurance company taking posession. This I've gotten from both insurance company people I talked to and DMV clerks in both massachusetts and florida. Sure knocked my socks off, it's amazing how loose this salvage/rebuilt/totalled title thing is.
02-13-2003, 10:43 AM
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Your posts indicates some direction from an attorney, but
In your complaint you indicated that you are not represented by a lawyer.
I think you have a good case, just watch your details.
I think you have a good case, just watch your details.
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02-13-2003, 02:13 PM
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Good catch, I wondered about that question
but on the website it pretty much made it seem that if you answered yes, you don't really need the state of florida doing anything for you. It's not exactly purjery, cause I haven't paid to retain a lawyer yet...this is all still pro bono advise at this point.
02-13-2003, 02:17 PM
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why?
He did a great job with the car, it was seriously showroom condition when I picked it up. I wish I'd known all this about BEFORE I bought...but that's my problem not his. *shrugs*
02-13-2003, 03:27 PM
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Two things.
First, you answered "no" when asked if you were being represneted by a lawyer. You indicate at the top that you have a lawyer.
Second, almost every manufacture voids any warranty for a car with a salvage title.
If you bought the car knowing it had a salvaged title, you have no case. If the person who sold you the car implied that it was still under warranty, you should go after them.
As for your conversation with Audi, those conversations are mute unless you recieved some letter or written explaination of the procedures.
Second, almost every manufacture voids any warranty for a car with a salvage title.
If you bought the car knowing it had a salvaged title, you have no case. If the person who sold you the car implied that it was still under warranty, you should go after them.
As for your conversation with Audi, those conversations are mute unless you recieved some letter or written explaination of the procedures.