Stage 3 questions..
12-31-2005, 05:40 PM
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Stage 3 questions..
If I bought AWE's Stage 3 kit and sent the K04's out to Jacob to modify them to K04/RS6's, will I have any problems running the Stg. 3 K04 software with them? Should I expect more power capabilities on pump and race gas than the plain K04's? What type of HP levels would I be around. The setup would be: AWE kit w/ K04/RS6, Autospeed Testpipes, Autospeed exhaust, AWE IC'S.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
12-31-2005, 06:27 PM
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AWE's Stage 3 kit is made for OEM K04s.
you will not see much benefit with out moding the program.
IMO
look for these 2 on my site for some more info.
AWE KO4 software + k04/16 hybrids + Apexi + TCD (update) ...
Coming to determination that AWE KO4 code can't be tweaked for ko4/16s...
Edy<ul><li><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/edyjun1/S4/index.htm">EdyJun's S4 Directory (FAQ, DIY, Info, Tips and Help)</a></li></ul>
IMO
look for these 2 on my site for some more info.
AWE KO4 software + k04/16 hybrids + Apexi + TCD (update) ...
Coming to determination that AWE KO4 code can't be tweaked for ko4/16s...
Edy<ul><li><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/edyjun1/S4/index.htm">EdyJun's S4 Directory (FAQ, DIY, Info, Tips and Help)</a></li></ul>
12-31-2005, 07:02 PM
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that's different than say ......
Bauer's setup.....where he runs AWE K04 code with his K04/RS6's and makes very strong power. To get the maximum power levels of a K04/RS6 Hybrid running AWE K04 code would prob need a tweak or two. Either by yourself...or someone like Jeff Moss.
01-01-2006, 06:49 AM
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some answers with my experience so far ...
I have been running AWE K04 code with k04/16 hybrids for a while
If you look at some of the links that Ed points you to below, I had failing O2s for some of them, but when they were replaced the "too low" O2s were corrected
Without any tweaks, the car will run perfectly - with my k16s I see a little higher peak torque when dynoed because the turbos hit harder than standard k04s (they take a fraction longer to spool but hit harder - your rs6's will not act like this I understand and will feel more k04 like) - the above evidence for this harder hitting torque comes from the shape of my torque curve as compared to AWE's torque curve
Also with the stock AWE K04 software setup, the car felt and sounded like it was working less hard in 4th and 5th gear when I floored it on the hyway (i.e. 20psi was effortless for the k16s - it could obviously handle more)
Summary, if you could dyno both rs6 and k04s on AWE K04 software (93 octane file) I don't think you will see "much" difference.
To get more power you are going to have to go down the route that I am experimenting with:
- TCD from Piggy + MBC or EBC to run more boost
As I live in NYC and have not had enough time to tweak the car, where I am today on tweaking (more to do for sure) is:
- +4% primary
- +130% accelerating load (if you look at my previously postings mentioned by Eddy, when the K16s hit the O2s would go lean - I'm trying to correct this (combo of more fuel / trying to reduce duty cycle + maybe secondary fuel when I get more logging time in the future)
- EBC (Apexi) set to 1.75 Bar (it tapers to 1.45 Bar at redline - I now have the throttle wire hooked up but it will not hold higher boost to redline as the wastegates need to be adjusted I think - also, and this is my observation from the Apexi versus stock N75, it is that the Apexi can only be set to a max of 90% duty cycle versus the N75 which goes to at least 95% I believe)
The above setup does consistent 3.95 Fats times with a fully loaded car (as I am either driving to Toronto with luggage or Watkins Glen with all my track stuff these are my only logging opportunities) - I had a chance to do 1 pull on a business trip with just myself in the car, 60 degrees and did a 3.8 - assuming waste gate adjustment, boost could be held to 24psi if desired and 3.5s would be doable - I believe Mike Moore has said that his k16s when he had them were in that range - k24s a little lower - that said, there is a car in Quebec running k24s that is well into the 2 second FAT times with some head work and clearancing of the turbos
My advice would be:
- get everything installed
- if you want more power, get AWE's 100 octane file and run 100 octane
- if you want more daily driving power, get a TCD from Piggy and hook up a MBC in parrallel with your N75 and turn the boost up to whatever level you feel comfortable with - I say in parralel because for daily hyway driving it will be smoother (the more aggressive N75 may also be a possibility - the guy in Germany runs it I believe)
- if you want even more playing ability, get an Apexi and begin tweaking like the rest of us (you can run 2 setups - a 20psi "AWE like" program and then by hitting a button on the Apexi jump up to a 24 psi program (for max benefit obviously small lemmi tweaks for fueling will be required when you do this but the settings I mentioned above work for my 24psi tapering to 20psi setup - more fuel would likely be required if 24psi was held to redline)
email me if you want more
If you look at some of the links that Ed points you to below, I had failing O2s for some of them, but when they were replaced the "too low" O2s were corrected
Without any tweaks, the car will run perfectly - with my k16s I see a little higher peak torque when dynoed because the turbos hit harder than standard k04s (they take a fraction longer to spool but hit harder - your rs6's will not act like this I understand and will feel more k04 like) - the above evidence for this harder hitting torque comes from the shape of my torque curve as compared to AWE's torque curve
Also with the stock AWE K04 software setup, the car felt and sounded like it was working less hard in 4th and 5th gear when I floored it on the hyway (i.e. 20psi was effortless for the k16s - it could obviously handle more)
Summary, if you could dyno both rs6 and k04s on AWE K04 software (93 octane file) I don't think you will see "much" difference.
To get more power you are going to have to go down the route that I am experimenting with:
- TCD from Piggy + MBC or EBC to run more boost
As I live in NYC and have not had enough time to tweak the car, where I am today on tweaking (more to do for sure) is:
- +4% primary
- +130% accelerating load (if you look at my previously postings mentioned by Eddy, when the K16s hit the O2s would go lean - I'm trying to correct this (combo of more fuel / trying to reduce duty cycle + maybe secondary fuel when I get more logging time in the future)
- EBC (Apexi) set to 1.75 Bar (it tapers to 1.45 Bar at redline - I now have the throttle wire hooked up but it will not hold higher boost to redline as the wastegates need to be adjusted I think - also, and this is my observation from the Apexi versus stock N75, it is that the Apexi can only be set to a max of 90% duty cycle versus the N75 which goes to at least 95% I believe)
The above setup does consistent 3.95 Fats times with a fully loaded car (as I am either driving to Toronto with luggage or Watkins Glen with all my track stuff these are my only logging opportunities) - I had a chance to do 1 pull on a business trip with just myself in the car, 60 degrees and did a 3.8 - assuming waste gate adjustment, boost could be held to 24psi if desired and 3.5s would be doable - I believe Mike Moore has said that his k16s when he had them were in that range - k24s a little lower - that said, there is a car in Quebec running k24s that is well into the 2 second FAT times with some head work and clearancing of the turbos
My advice would be:
- get everything installed
- if you want more power, get AWE's 100 octane file and run 100 octane
- if you want more daily driving power, get a TCD from Piggy and hook up a MBC in parrallel with your N75 and turn the boost up to whatever level you feel comfortable with - I say in parralel because for daily hyway driving it will be smoother (the more aggressive N75 may also be a possibility - the guy in Germany runs it I believe)
- if you want even more playing ability, get an Apexi and begin tweaking like the rest of us (you can run 2 setups - a 20psi "AWE like" program and then by hitting a button on the Apexi jump up to a 24 psi program (for max benefit obviously small lemmi tweaks for fueling will be required when you do this but the settings I mentioned above work for my 24psi tapering to 20psi setup - more fuel would likely be required if 24psi was held to redline)
email me if you want more
