There's a '01 S4 here without the new badge . . .
07-23-2000, 10:17 AM
#11
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my 2001 has the old badge..new badges won't come until later in production
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/funkadelic_s4_rear.jpg"></center><p><p>--
<a href="http://registry.audiworld.com/audi/registry/details.asp?car=5013">'01 Silver/Onyx/6spd</a>
<a href="http://registry.audiworld.com/audi/registry/details.asp?car=5013">'01 Silver/Onyx/6spd</a>
07-23-2000, 10:46 AM
#12
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Yes, I was referring to that....
The car will accelerate based on it’s torque curve but it’s better to have the torque up high where the engine is developing hp. Our torque curve is the opposite way around so we are rapidly losing torque as we get into the higher rpm range (HP).
7krpm = 226hp/154 ft.lbs torque
5800rpm = 250hp/226ft lbs.
Of course, I am only going by that MTM graph and have no idea about its accuracy.
Reving past peak to make up for a drop in rpm for the next gear is in the power band is correct (unless you have unlimited torque as the article says) but in my chipped tip s4 (where the shifts take the same amount of time every time) the car clocks faster shifting at 5800rpm (shift actually happens at 6200rpm) than revving all the way to redline (.2 faster 0-60). This is with a GIAC ECU and tip chip so without a graph, I have no idea where peak power is but it feels like 5800-6000 rpm. If you try to pass a car and kickdown the transmission (getting into a gear at revs over 5800), you might as well pull back into line because the car isn’t going anywhere.
To quote: “Finally, operating at the power peak means you are doing the absolute best you can at any given car speed, measuring torque at the drive wheels. I know I said that acceleration follows the torque curve in any given gear, but if you factor in gearing vs car speed, the power peak is *it*.”
I think we’re saying the same thing but differing on opinion about where the power band is and how to keep the car there.
In a super vee, if you rev 200rpm past the peak hp before shifting, it is like slamming on the brakes. I don’t pretend to be an engineer but in every race car I’ve ever driven, you didn’t gain anything revving past peak UNLESS (sort of as you said) you need to be there to make up for a massive drop of RPM because of the spaces between gears (since you can choose gear ratios in a super-vee, this was not a problem). Theory and reality always came into conflict in my 21 years racing.
I’ll try it both ways next time I take the car to the strip. Arguing about theory is meaningless without timeslips.<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/carssmall4.jpg">
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1
7krpm = 226hp/154 ft.lbs torque
5800rpm = 250hp/226ft lbs.
Of course, I am only going by that MTM graph and have no idea about its accuracy.
Reving past peak to make up for a drop in rpm for the next gear is in the power band is correct (unless you have unlimited torque as the article says) but in my chipped tip s4 (where the shifts take the same amount of time every time) the car clocks faster shifting at 5800rpm (shift actually happens at 6200rpm) than revving all the way to redline (.2 faster 0-60). This is with a GIAC ECU and tip chip so without a graph, I have no idea where peak power is but it feels like 5800-6000 rpm. If you try to pass a car and kickdown the transmission (getting into a gear at revs over 5800), you might as well pull back into line because the car isn’t going anywhere.
To quote: “Finally, operating at the power peak means you are doing the absolute best you can at any given car speed, measuring torque at the drive wheels. I know I said that acceleration follows the torque curve in any given gear, but if you factor in gearing vs car speed, the power peak is *it*.”
I think we’re saying the same thing but differing on opinion about where the power band is and how to keep the car there.
In a super vee, if you rev 200rpm past the peak hp before shifting, it is like slamming on the brakes. I don’t pretend to be an engineer but in every race car I’ve ever driven, you didn’t gain anything revving past peak UNLESS (sort of as you said) you need to be there to make up for a massive drop of RPM because of the spaces between gears (since you can choose gear ratios in a super-vee, this was not a problem). Theory and reality always came into conflict in my 21 years racing.
I’ll try it both ways next time I take the car to the strip. Arguing about theory is meaningless without timeslips.<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/carssmall4.jpg">
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1
07-23-2000, 11:06 AM
#13
I wish speed didn't fly by so fast so I could measure G-forces with the G-Tech more accurately...
...but trying to distinguish between the acceleration G's experienced between 6100 and 6300 RPMs in 2nd or 3rd gear is kind of hard to do since you're accelerating so quickly.
BTW, APR did confirm my approximation of shift points for a chipped S4 to be pretty much accurate on the phone, but would not give me the raw dyno graph, so I could not get exact information. I would imagine that on any given day in any different S4, these numbers could vary by a few hundred RPM one way or the other. I know that stock, it is definitely noticeable to stay in gear nearly to the redline for best acceleration, but that it is a much closer call with a chipped car as to where to shift (pretty much anywhere over 5500-5600RPM's you could shift or not shift and the difference in power/acceleration would only be about no more than 5-6%) once you get past the 1-2 shift.
BTW, APR did confirm my approximation of shift points for a chipped S4 to be pretty much accurate on the phone, but would not give me the raw dyno graph, so I could not get exact information. I would imagine that on any given day in any different S4, these numbers could vary by a few hundred RPM one way or the other. I know that stock, it is definitely noticeable to stay in gear nearly to the redline for best acceleration, but that it is a much closer call with a chipped car as to where to shift (pretty much anywhere over 5500-5600RPM's you could shift or not shift and the difference in power/acceleration would only be about no more than 5-6%) once you get past the 1-2 shift.
07-23-2000, 11:23 AM
#14
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tempts me to pay for dyno time...I understand there is a 4W dyno in Irvine.
<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/carssmall4.jpg">
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1
07-23-2000, 11:24 AM
#15
Those new S4 logos look like they were photoshopped to me, so I'd bet...
...the dash is from a regular A4 too with changes for the S4 done on the computer (except for the instrument tick marks and numeration). Note that the speedo is only 160 as well.
07-23-2000, 02:15 PM
#20
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Hmm if we can get multiple cars for that hour I'd be game!
<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/carssmall4.jpg">
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1
00 S4 tip
Silver/Black
GIAC ECU/tip chips
V1