H&R Q's/Info (Warning Very long......)
10-19-2001, 05:47 PM
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H&R Q's/Info (Warning Very long......)
Hi All,
So as I mentioned a while ago I raised the car up....now I've got some Q's....
1. My ground to center wheel measurements aren't equal all around but I set all the sides to top of the adjustment. What gives?
Here are the measurements:
pre-raise ~ 24" all around (fyi on the rear this is about as low as you can go, i.e. slammed).
post-raise:
LF: 25 1/8" RF: 25 1/4"
LR: 25 1/2" RR: 25 3/4"
So basically the right side of the car is 1/4" higher than the left (and this is without anyone in the car!)
2. Should I be worried (i.e. try to change) by this difference in height?
3. Where's a decent suspension shop in the Denver area? (Col Bogey do you have input here? TIA if you do!)
4. I'm thinking corner balance & alignment all at once....how much ballpark for that?
5. Since raising the car up I get a creak in the suspension every now and again. This only happens when going over a diagonal bump at abt. 5mph or hitting an expansion joint type bump at 65mph. Normal? Not Normal? What the heck? I didn't hear this at all when it was at the other end of the adjusment.
6. Is this the max height I can get out of these? I saw Col. Bogey was able to set to 26" (factory is 26 1/2") I doubt it is, scrutinize the pics below, I don't think that I've got that much adjustment more I can go as the threads are just about maxed out.
7. What is up with this rivet pop? Anyone else have this? it's on the Left front wheel well for me.
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontrivetpop2-vi.jpg?1003541928">
So now the details....all in all it took me about 3.5hrs. That's cause I am slow...not to mention that I was using the jack provided w/ the car (scary lookin thing didn't take a pic of it, but I will eventually...amazed it worked as well as it did. Of course that's on an almost perfectly level, I checked it, concrete floor).
So there are 2 "wrenches" that came w/ the springs. One is big...you use this for all of the corners. The other is small, this is just for the locking ring on the front.
Oh yeah, this surprised me, these are not the usual lugnuts I've been used to...but bolts! btw, the whole torque wrench, extender and socket set me back <$40.
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/bolts2-vi.jpg?1003540811a">
Here's where I started at the Right Rear (RR)
Before the adjustment
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearpre-raising-vi.jpg?1003541982">
After the adjustment:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearraised-vi.jpg?1003542009">
A close-up of the threads:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearraised4-vi.jpg?1003542033">
A pic of what happens with excessive camber to a RR tire (note the wear to the right side, the tires flipped around):
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightreartread-vi.jpg?1003542056">
Then I went on to the left rear (LR) here's where you can see what someone else was talking about with the GEN III H&R springs wearing a bit:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearspringwear2-vi.jpg?1003542090">
Before raising:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542127">
After:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised-vi.jpg?1003542159">
Two close ups of the threads:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised2-vi.jpg?1003542163">
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised4-vi.jpg?1003542171">
What happens to a LR tire w/ excessive camber:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftreartread-vi.jpg?1003542206">
Now to the Left Front (LF):
Before:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542102">
After (don't worry I locked the nut up...boy was that hard to get the lock nut jammed against the adjuster nut!):
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542115">
LF tread holds up better than the rears:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfronttread-vi.jpg?1003542138">
Now the RF (last one! I was actually getting pretty good at this whole thing by then....):
Before:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542215">
After:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542228">
Again the tire fared better on the front:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542228">
So that's it...now keep in mind that I'd never done this before, and there's still the issue of alignment/corner balancing/etc. that needs to be done (preferably with some fancy equipment
-Dale
PS. The most fun I had with this besides finally wrenching on a vehicle again was all the odd looks I got as people went thru the garage. It's a large underground garage for a high-rise
So as I mentioned a while ago I raised the car up....now I've got some Q's....
1. My ground to center wheel measurements aren't equal all around but I set all the sides to top of the adjustment. What gives?
Here are the measurements:
pre-raise ~ 24" all around (fyi on the rear this is about as low as you can go, i.e. slammed).
post-raise:
LF: 25 1/8" RF: 25 1/4"
LR: 25 1/2" RR: 25 3/4"
So basically the right side of the car is 1/4" higher than the left (and this is without anyone in the car!)
2. Should I be worried (i.e. try to change) by this difference in height?
3. Where's a decent suspension shop in the Denver area? (Col Bogey do you have input here? TIA if you do!)
4. I'm thinking corner balance & alignment all at once....how much ballpark for that?
5. Since raising the car up I get a creak in the suspension every now and again. This only happens when going over a diagonal bump at abt. 5mph or hitting an expansion joint type bump at 65mph. Normal? Not Normal? What the heck? I didn't hear this at all when it was at the other end of the adjusment.
6. Is this the max height I can get out of these? I saw Col. Bogey was able to set to 26" (factory is 26 1/2") I doubt it is, scrutinize the pics below, I don't think that I've got that much adjustment more I can go as the threads are just about maxed out.
7. What is up with this rivet pop? Anyone else have this? it's on the Left front wheel well for me.
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontrivetpop2-vi.jpg?1003541928">
So now the details....all in all it took me about 3.5hrs. That's cause I am slow...not to mention that I was using the jack provided w/ the car (scary lookin thing didn't take a pic of it, but I will eventually...amazed it worked as well as it did. Of course that's on an almost perfectly level, I checked it, concrete floor).
So there are 2 "wrenches" that came w/ the springs. One is big...you use this for all of the corners. The other is small, this is just for the locking ring on the front.
Oh yeah, this surprised me, these are not the usual lugnuts I've been used to...but bolts! btw, the whole torque wrench, extender and socket set me back <$40.
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/bolts2-vi.jpg?1003540811a">
Here's where I started at the Right Rear (RR)
Before the adjustment
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearpre-raising-vi.jpg?1003541982">
After the adjustment:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearraised-vi.jpg?1003542009">
A close-up of the threads:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightrearraised4-vi.jpg?1003542033">
A pic of what happens with excessive camber to a RR tire (note the wear to the right side, the tires flipped around):
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightreartread-vi.jpg?1003542056">
Then I went on to the left rear (LR) here's where you can see what someone else was talking about with the GEN III H&R springs wearing a bit:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearspringwear2-vi.jpg?1003542090">
Before raising:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542127">
After:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised-vi.jpg?1003542159">
Two close ups of the threads:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised2-vi.jpg?1003542163">
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftrearraised4-vi.jpg?1003542171">
What happens to a LR tire w/ excessive camber:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftreartread-vi.jpg?1003542206">
Now to the Left Front (LF):
Before:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542102">
After (don't worry I locked the nut up...boy was that hard to get the lock nut jammed against the adjuster nut!):
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542115">
LF tread holds up better than the rears:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/leftfronttread-vi.jpg?1003542138">
Now the RF (last one! I was actually getting pretty good at this whole thing by then....):
Before:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontpre-raised-vi.jpg?1003542215">
After:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542228">
Again the tire fared better on the front:
<img src="http://images.fotki.com/photos/2/26140/46988/rightfrontraised2-vi.jpg?1003542228">
So that's it...now keep in mind that I'd never done this before, and there's still the issue of alignment/corner balancing/etc. that needs to be done (preferably with some fancy equipment
-Dale
PS. The most fun I had with this besides finally wrenching on a vehicle again was all the odd looks I got as people went thru the garage. It's a large underground garage for a high-rise
10-19-2001, 06:03 PM
#4
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Ditto...nah, actually I'll just cut & paste both yours & mine to this msg.
Steve said:
You've jacked the adjusters up and the car measurements are different from each other rather than uniform? Have you settled the suspension after making the adjustments? and are you measuring on a perfectly level surface? The really right way to go is to select the ride height you want and get the car corner balanced and aligned. There might be enough variance from spring to spring, that an equal setting on all adjusters does not equal an exctly similar measurement on each wheel. The cheap way to go (assuming a level surface) is to forget about the adjuster position and set for uniform height at all 4 corners. This assumes, of course, that the car is straight and uniform. As mentioned above, corner balancing is really the only way to do it correctly.......
--------------------------------------------------
I replied:
Yep, I figured that would be the answer...I've driven the car for a couple of weeks now. Though to be honest it sat for several days this wk (training for a mtn bike race in a few wks, so I've been riding to work).
So it seems that I was on the right path....to take and set the height about the same (I'm w/in a 1/4" left to right, and max delta of 1/2") Then find someplace to get the corner balance/alignment done.
As to the perfectly level surface question...I checked level at all four corners, and the floor was level at all 4. This isn't to say that they're all in the same plane, just parallel. I couldn't think of a way to do that w/o a very long level.
Thanks again,
Dale
---------------------------------------------
proof is at: <a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/378571.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/378571.phtml</a>
You've jacked the adjusters up and the car measurements are different from each other rather than uniform? Have you settled the suspension after making the adjustments? and are you measuring on a perfectly level surface? The really right way to go is to select the ride height you want and get the car corner balanced and aligned. There might be enough variance from spring to spring, that an equal setting on all adjusters does not equal an exctly similar measurement on each wheel. The cheap way to go (assuming a level surface) is to forget about the adjuster position and set for uniform height at all 4 corners. This assumes, of course, that the car is straight and uniform. As mentioned above, corner balancing is really the only way to do it correctly.......
--------------------------------------------------
I replied:
Yep, I figured that would be the answer...I've driven the car for a couple of weeks now. Though to be honest it sat for several days this wk (training for a mtn bike race in a few wks, so I've been riding to work).
So it seems that I was on the right path....to take and set the height about the same (I'm w/in a 1/4" left to right, and max delta of 1/2") Then find someplace to get the corner balance/alignment done.
As to the perfectly level surface question...I checked level at all four corners, and the floor was level at all 4. This isn't to say that they're all in the same plane, just parallel. I couldn't think of a way to do that w/o a very long level.
Thanks again,
Dale
---------------------------------------------
proof is at: <a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/378571.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/378571.phtml</a>
10-19-2001, 06:09 PM
#5
Works for me...I think you're on the right track.....>>>>
On the spring wear, I think there have been 3 generations of springs from H&R. I also think they have provided vinyl coil covers for the upper coils that bind, to reduce noise and eliminate the wear you are seeing... Might want to check with H&R or your supplier.....
10-19-2001, 06:14 PM
#6
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Beats me who the supplier was, regardless it was in Chicago so...
I'm not going to be driving back across Nebraska to get it taken care of...just ask Gnow how fun that is
Should I be worried abt. the wear? Based on another post because these are "beer keg shaped" they're Gen III springs. My thought is to just keep an eye on it, I can't believe that a vinyl cover is going to do squat in terms of preventing a portion of the entire car weight from wiggling around & continuing the wear.
I was planning on sending/talking w/ H&R anyways to give them the opportunity to give me advice I've talked w/ them before & the Steve out there was quite helpful.
Thanks,
Dale
Should I be worried abt. the wear? Based on another post because these are "beer keg shaped" they're Gen III springs. My thought is to just keep an eye on it, I can't believe that a vinyl cover is going to do squat in terms of preventing a portion of the entire car weight from wiggling around & continuing the wear.
I was planning on sending/talking w/ H&R anyways to give them the opportunity to give me advice
I've talked w/ them before & the Steve out there was quite helpful.Thanks,
Dale
10-19-2001, 06:27 PM
#7
Dale...You should measure the rear camber......>>>>
My Eibachs drop the car a little over 1 inch and the rear camber goes to -2.5. I think stock is -1.5 or so. A drop farther than this will result in more camber and more inside edge tire wear. Becaust the TT suspension is non-adjustable, you have to go to aftermarket products to provide the adjustability. Kmac makes an eccentric rear bushing that will allow you to get the camber back into spec (about $270 from Tire Rack I hear). Terry griffen also does a modification to the upper arm which allows adjustability (about $350 or so). I'm probably going with the Kmac fix unless a better alternative pops up...
On the spring wear, don't know if you should worry or not. I'd go for the coil covers if they are available
Steve
On the spring wear, don't know if you should worry or not. I'd go for the coil covers if they are available
Steve
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10-19-2001, 06:33 PM
#8
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One inch makes a 1degree diff...wow....
I remember that you'd put the spacers on as well, and that made a difference. Is the 1" lower, -2.5deg measurement without the spacers?
I'm likely just to "live" with the -2.5 if so, at least for a little bit. I'm in the midst of buying a place, and still in a bit of sticker shock (first time buyer, been renting since school).
Thanks again, I was hoping that I'd catch you when you were reading
-Dale
I'm likely just to "live" with the -2.5 if so, at least for a little bit. I'm in the midst of buying a place, and still in a bit of sticker shock (first time buyer, been renting since school).
Thanks again, I was hoping that I'd catch you when you were reading
-Dale
10-19-2001, 06:44 PM
#9
Not sure how much affect the spacers are having....>>
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13940/dscf0957.jpg"></center><p>Probably some. -2 to -2.5 is livable but I'd like to bring it to -1.8. I'll probably go with one of the camber afjusters mentioned. Here's a shot of a good $40 camber gauge. Worthwile to have if you're gonna be messing around with your height and such...
Gauge can be gotten at the link below<ul><li><a href="http://www.racerpartswholesale.com">http://www.racerpartswholesale.com</a</li></ul>
Gauge can be gotten at the link below<ul><li><a href="http://www.racerpartswholesale.com">http://www.racerpartswholesale.com</a</li></ul>
