Jason Chen

OK, I'm interested in a FMIC, and i know that APR is coming out with one for my 180q. But something about a inlet and outlet on the same side just doesn't strike me as efficient as a inlet and outlets on opposite sides.

So my questions. Do you guys think modding my piping to a 225 piping so it can accept intercoolers that I prefer? What else besides a intake manifold do I need? Would the 225 intake manifold fit on the 180?

I did a search and found one that Mance explained that honing my intake manifold would help increase HP.

Any advice and suggestions or answers accepted!

Larrytt

the intake manifold is not as easy/cheap a swap as you might think . . . You need not only the manifold, but you also need the throttle body. That piece cannot be inexpensive. You will also need to reroute the wires and hoses on your own as you will not be able to buy them, the wiring harness is generally a single piece all connected together. Assuming you get the hardware and wiring all hooked up, would you need to have the chip reprogrammed to compensate for a larger throttle body and more air entering the engine because of the larger intake plenum? I would think so, but don't know for certain.

Now for the other part of your question. The FMIC having the two pipes on the same side of the 180 makes LOTS of sense and is the correct way to go. The reasoning is the least amount of pipe needed will help that much more in reducing your lag. Basically the more pipe you have connecting the FMIC to the engine/turbo the more lag you will need to overcome. By having the two pipes on one side of the car you have a much less complicated install. The 225 uses both ends because that is how the car was designed. It also used the cross pipe that even the 180's have. The extra piping is not needed.

The best ic's use the least amount of pipes. Just more efficient that way.

hoTTub

When I first started thinking about FMIC, I started doing my research as well. I read all of the books I could about turbos and intercoolers etc.

The first thing that popped in my head was to do exactly what you are thinking, which is to swap out all of the 180 intake plumbing for the 225 version which would put everything were it needed to be and problem solved.

The intake and throttle body are pretty no brainer stuff, other than the cost (intake is around $300 and the TB is more) it would be no problem.

The real PITA would be all of the ancillaries like Larry said. I dont agree that all of the correct plumbing would not be available but it would be EXTRMEMELY cost prohibitive.

You would need all new:
-Fuel lines
-Vacuum hoses
-Fuel Rail and associated harnesses.
-Brake booster lines.
etc

I do not believe that you would need to have the ECU/chip recalibrated to the bigger TB, this has not been proved as a problem on other Motronic cars....but I could be wrong.

Knowing what I know about fuel lines and vacuum hoses etc for VAG cars (my VR6 Cabrio needed some hoses to complete the *factory* look install and <b>1</b>of the fuel lines was $69 and the brake booster hose with a check valve was $80...

See how this could be alot more money than its worth?



Regarding APR's forthcoming FMIC design, I have mixed emotions... Everything that I have ever read about intercooler design says that APR's design is NOT the most efficient way to accomplish minimal pressure drop due to the turns and sharply designed end tanks. The other part of knows that APR employs mechanical engineers with degrees and I do not fit into that category, so everything I say has to be taken with a grain of salt. They have incredible tooling capabilities with the SLA machine and use very good computer programs that can measure fluid dynamics before the first part is even prototyped. This leads me to believe that it will be a nice product.

I still have a hard time with the design of those end tanks tho....

I think that it is almost a <b>6 on 1 hand, 1/2 dozen on the other</b> kind if scenario:

Forge will have some longer piping but will feature a better flowing/intercooler

APR will use less piping but will be a little more restrictive.

That my .02

Jason Chen

But do you guys(Sean and Larry) think that the APR FMIC is kinda small?

hoTTub

our application.

I will stick with the monster Forge tho'

Larrytt

one thing I don't really like about any of the FMIC's I have seen . . . half of the FMIC is hidden behind the bumper! Make them twice and thick and totally in the lower grill area and it should be more efficient.