More BAD press in the UK over TT handling
12-15-1999, 11:01 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
More BAD press in the UK over TT handling
While waiting in the train station newsagents this morning, happily contemplating collecting my Raven Black 225 TTQ on Saturday, I decided to browse through a number of the motoring publications.
Having come across the following article, I wished I had not started to look for something to read.
The following article appears in the January 2000 edition of CAR magazine in the UK.
BRIT BITTEN BY TT’S HANDLING
Audi has reacted to criticism of the TT’s high-speed handling – too late for this owner.
Chris Meek’s TT coupe was 10 miles old. He’d picked it up from the dealer, given his two young children a short lift, then gone off down a familiar road. Confronted by overtaking traffic coming the other way, he turned to the left, backed off and touched the brakes – an ordinary manoeuvre. The road was dry, though there was a crosswind. The TT’s tail stepped out, he corrected, it swung the other way. The car fishtailed across the road, hit the offside barrier head on and rolled onto its roof while crossing back to the nearside. Meek broke his neck, while his partner Barbara Williams sustained a near-fatal fractured skull.
“I said at the time there was something wrong with the car,” says Meek. After the TT’s handling came under scrutiny it was suggested to Meek that he was making excuses, but he’d never heard of any problems before he had his crash. Since then, Meek says, he has learned that his accident is not unique in Britain.
It’s not that Meek is inexperienced. For four years previously he’d owned, and driven hard, an Escort Cosworth. Though the police estimate his speed as 91mph, they are not prosecuting him in connection with the crash.
The first fatal TT accidents came to light in the autumn, two cars spinning off on autobahn bends. Questions were asked in the German press, and Audi wen to work on modifications.
Originally, the TT was deliberately set up to give relatively sharp lift-off over steer, to be a very reactive car in the way of, say, a Peugeot GTI. What seems to be its greatest problem is that the beetle like shape causes high-speed aerodynamic lift at the rear, and when the front end dips under braking the shape means that the lift gets more severe, emphasizing any shortage of rear grip.
In other words, at the sort of speeds and events where most drivers would wan the TT to be more stable (backing off during a high-speed bend because it’s tightening or there’s an obstruction), the TT actually becomes more tail happy.
All this in a car that, because of its Quattro drive and German provenance, is expected by many owners to be ultra secure at autobahn speeds.
THE MODS IN FULL
Original-spec TTs are still being delivered in Britain, though from December build they will have the modifications as standard. First, a tail spoiler (picture as featured in the recall document on the web page), balance the rear lift. Also, a set of suspension mods is aimed at making the lift-off over-steer more controllable. The front wishbones are modified, and revised anti-roll bars and stiffer dampers are fitted. All these parts can be fitted free by dealers to existing cars if owners want it. But the final part of the package, a full ESP skid control system, can’t be retro-fitted.
SPIN DOCTORING: AUDI PR PLAYS IT DOWN
Audi is playing down the TT’s problems. It even launched the unmodified Roadster to the British press, and continued to advertise the car here without a spoiler, after the modifications had been announced. And it’s important to not that this isn’t a recall. The mods are free but optional. Many owners, Audi says, won’t wan the spoiler as they like the car’s clean lines. The suspension tweaks don’t just make the car under-steer, the firm says. No, they “spread the limits over a broader range…drivers will find the car easier to control.” The engineers knew how the car behaved before they launched it, the say, but accidents (admittedly few with 40,000 cars sold) forced them to reconsider whether it was suitable for public use.
But Audi is taking the mick when it argues that the aerodynamic problem only rears its head above the British legal speeds; that’s only half the speed the car is capable of. In truth, Audi has got off lightly compared with Merc’s A-Class recall: the elk test is a violent track manoeuvre and no member of the public rolled an unmodified A-class. Several real peoople have been really hurt in TT’s
The closing caption along side a picture of Mr Meek and his partner who are over looking the remains of the upturned TT. Chris Meek with partner Barbara. “I’m not a 17 year old kid who was handed a missile. I’m a 40 year old who’d just got into his dream”
I must admit some of the shine of picking up what up until recently has been a much admired car. However, these criticisms in the UK press are starting to rub of with the general public and many colleagues and friends have started to mention the bad press and ask whether I am concerned or still going ahead with the purchase. I wondered if other TT owners had heard of the other cases that this article mentions or have had any similar experiences as to the "happy tail under lift off". Have the motoring press in other countries been so critical. Or is this a case of the UK press wanting any chance to critise something that is envied or desired.
I would be interested in your comments and views.
Having come across the following article, I wished I had not started to look for something to read.
The following article appears in the January 2000 edition of CAR magazine in the UK.
BRIT BITTEN BY TT’S HANDLING
Audi has reacted to criticism of the TT’s high-speed handling – too late for this owner.
Chris Meek’s TT coupe was 10 miles old. He’d picked it up from the dealer, given his two young children a short lift, then gone off down a familiar road. Confronted by overtaking traffic coming the other way, he turned to the left, backed off and touched the brakes – an ordinary manoeuvre. The road was dry, though there was a crosswind. The TT’s tail stepped out, he corrected, it swung the other way. The car fishtailed across the road, hit the offside barrier head on and rolled onto its roof while crossing back to the nearside. Meek broke his neck, while his partner Barbara Williams sustained a near-fatal fractured skull.
“I said at the time there was something wrong with the car,” says Meek. After the TT’s handling came under scrutiny it was suggested to Meek that he was making excuses, but he’d never heard of any problems before he had his crash. Since then, Meek says, he has learned that his accident is not unique in Britain.
It’s not that Meek is inexperienced. For four years previously he’d owned, and driven hard, an Escort Cosworth. Though the police estimate his speed as 91mph, they are not prosecuting him in connection with the crash.
The first fatal TT accidents came to light in the autumn, two cars spinning off on autobahn bends. Questions were asked in the German press, and Audi wen to work on modifications.
Originally, the TT was deliberately set up to give relatively sharp lift-off over steer, to be a very reactive car in the way of, say, a Peugeot GTI. What seems to be its greatest problem is that the beetle like shape causes high-speed aerodynamic lift at the rear, and when the front end dips under braking the shape means that the lift gets more severe, emphasizing any shortage of rear grip.
In other words, at the sort of speeds and events where most drivers would wan the TT to be more stable (backing off during a high-speed bend because it’s tightening or there’s an obstruction), the TT actually becomes more tail happy.
All this in a car that, because of its Quattro drive and German provenance, is expected by many owners to be ultra secure at autobahn speeds.
THE MODS IN FULL
Original-spec TTs are still being delivered in Britain, though from December build they will have the modifications as standard. First, a tail spoiler (picture as featured in the recall document on the web page), balance the rear lift. Also, a set of suspension mods is aimed at making the lift-off over-steer more controllable. The front wishbones are modified, and revised anti-roll bars and stiffer dampers are fitted. All these parts can be fitted free by dealers to existing cars if owners want it. But the final part of the package, a full ESP skid control system, can’t be retro-fitted.
SPIN DOCTORING: AUDI PR PLAYS IT DOWN
Audi is playing down the TT’s problems. It even launched the unmodified Roadster to the British press, and continued to advertise the car here without a spoiler, after the modifications had been announced. And it’s important to not that this isn’t a recall. The mods are free but optional. Many owners, Audi says, won’t wan the spoiler as they like the car’s clean lines. The suspension tweaks don’t just make the car under-steer, the firm says. No, they “spread the limits over a broader range…drivers will find the car easier to control.” The engineers knew how the car behaved before they launched it, the say, but accidents (admittedly few with 40,000 cars sold) forced them to reconsider whether it was suitable for public use.
But Audi is taking the mick when it argues that the aerodynamic problem only rears its head above the British legal speeds; that’s only half the speed the car is capable of. In truth, Audi has got off lightly compared with Merc’s A-Class recall: the elk test is a violent track manoeuvre and no member of the public rolled an unmodified A-class. Several real peoople have been really hurt in TT’s
The closing caption along side a picture of Mr Meek and his partner who are over looking the remains of the upturned TT. Chris Meek with partner Barbara. “I’m not a 17 year old kid who was handed a missile. I’m a 40 year old who’d just got into his dream”
I must admit some of the shine of picking up what up until recently has been a much admired car. However, these criticisms in the UK press are starting to rub of with the general public and many colleagues and friends have started to mention the bad press and ask whether I am concerned or still going ahead with the purchase. I wondered if other TT owners had heard of the other cases that this article mentions or have had any similar experiences as to the "happy tail under lift off". Have the motoring press in other countries been so critical. Or is this a case of the UK press wanting any chance to critise something that is envied or desired.
I would be interested in your comments and views.
12-15-1999, 11:23 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Rebuttal
First of all the car only had 10 miles on it and he was driving it at 100 mph? The tires were still new, slippery and hadn't had a chance to be broken in yet. Sounds like this guy was trying to impress his girlfriend and ended up fracturing her skull instead. I bet she's impressed! My first guess would be that this may have been caused by new slippery tires. The guy shouldn't have been driving a brand spanking new car that fast in the first place IMHO!
12-15-1999, 11:43 AM
#3
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Posts: n/a
The incident has been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
The other crashes the article alludes to happened in Germany; two fatalaties in accidents that involved break while turning at high speed.
The consesus here is that Meeks' was at fault. I only got my TT up to 90 yesterday, and that was in the safest conditions, straightest run of freeway, and after driving 600 miles.
I am also resentful that a great-handling car like the TT is being subject to a recall because of the foolishness of a few people like Meeks.
The consesus here is that Meeks' was at fault. I only got my TT up to 90 yesterday, and that was in the safest conditions, straightest run of freeway, and after driving 600 miles.
I am also resentful that a great-handling car like the TT is being subject to a recall because of the foolishness of a few people like Meeks.
12-15-1999, 11:47 AM
#4
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Re: Rebuttal
I agree with your observations entirely. In my opinion the guy was on two accounts not being what I would call sensible in his driving approach. Firstly as a new car the vehicle needs running in properly before you start to push it too the limits. Secondly it takes time to learn a cars handling characteristics regardless of previous driving experience. 10 miles in my opinion is not enough time to give a high level of compentence in handling a vehicle at the limit or in an evasive situation.
Given the bad press in the UK, and the number of publications that have picked up on this particular incident, I am just trying to get a better rounded view based upon owners. And hopefully confirm my own views that this is not representative of the vehicles handling and was more as a result of driver than car.
Given the bad press in the UK, and the number of publications that have picked up on this particular incident, I am just trying to get a better rounded view based upon owners. And hopefully confirm my own views that this is not representative of the vehicles handling and was more as a result of driver than car.
12-15-1999, 12:01 PM
#6
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Posts: n/a
You will love your 225Q!
Mine now has 1500 miles on it and has improved dramatically over this time. The gear shift is still very notchy from cold but fine once the car has warmed up, and the engine has (apparently) become more powerful.
Handling wise, all I can say is that I've taken the TT to the limits of what I consider is safe on a public road. I admit that this does not include doing 90mph in a 60mph zone! But the handling has (so far) been flawless and I love the way the car seems to find the right way out of the silliest cornering manoeuvres, without a hint of body roll. The 225Q has more cornering precision than any car I've had the pleasure of driving to date.
Now that winter is closing in I think you'll like the heated seats, too, but that's another story.
Enjoy it when it arrives...!
Handling wise, all I can say is that I've taken the TT to the limits of what I consider is safe on a public road. I admit that this does not include doing 90mph in a 60mph zone! But the handling has (so far) been flawless and I love the way the car seems to find the right way out of the silliest cornering manoeuvres, without a hint of body roll. The 225Q has more cornering precision than any car I've had the pleasure of driving to date.
Now that winter is closing in I think you'll like the heated seats, too, but that's another story.
Enjoy it when it arrives...!
12-15-1999, 01:26 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Common sense and press reporting
As stated before, 10 miles old tyres are very slippery.
91mph (minimum) in a 60mph zone is, well unwise is a diplomatic term.
After 10 miles, and attempting to get out of a situation he should never have gotten himself in, one is compelled to ask how sharply he turned to the left. Of course, after 10 miles he would be fully aware of just how sharply the TTq turns in, but of course being an experienced Cosworth driver he would be ready for this....yeah sure!!
My personal opinion, this guy was overdriving his ability, stuffed up and thats that!!
Graham 225q
91mph (minimum) in a 60mph zone is, well unwise is a diplomatic term.
After 10 miles, and attempting to get out of a situation he should never have gotten himself in, one is compelled to ask how sharply he turned to the left. Of course, after 10 miles he would be fully aware of just how sharply the TTq turns in, but of course being an experienced Cosworth driver he would be ready for this....yeah sure!!
My personal opinion, this guy was overdriving his ability, stuffed up and thats that!!
Graham 225q
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12-15-1999, 03:30 PM
#9
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Dont' worry drive happy
When I test drove the TT 180 FWD, I U turned left and then right on a road with gravel while applying the brakes @ around 60 mph, I felt a little controlable tail spin but that was it, I am not a professional driver or else, but think this car works just right until you over estimate yourself and your machine.
I have driven my TT @ 125 mph, I tell you there is nothing like that on earth.
I have driven my TT @ 125 mph, I tell you there is nothing like that on earth.