Watkins Glen NER QCUSA Drivers School review . . .
07-19-2000, 05:50 AM
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Watkins Glen NER QCUSA Drivers School review . . .
First let me begin by saying this . . .WHERE ARE MY FELLOW TT ENTHUSIASTS??? I was the ONLY TT other than an instructor at The Glen! Come on everyone, sign up for these drivers school, they are a blast. Guaranteed fun for all, plus you learn how to drive your pride and joy at its and your limits. Nothing can be finer. 
Ok, off the soap box.
The drive to The Glen was not as far as Mapquest told me, nothing new their! Mapquest told me 345 miles and almost 6 hours, in reality it was 279 miles and 4 hours 35 minutes. The drive was very uneventful until I got to the Bimghamton area. That is about when it started to rain. Just a light drizzle on and off through the mountains. The torrential rains never occured that were predicted for the weekend until I made it to the hotel for tech inspection.
I got to the Seneca Lodge and went immediately to check in and then to Tech. As soon as I got into line the heavan opened up and Tech all of a sudden became a race to remain as dry as possible! lol My Tech lasted all of 2 minutes. Everyone was soaked to the bone and we all hoped this is not how the weekend was going to go. I went off to my room and dried out.
Ok, now to what everyone wants to know . . .
Since this was my first time at The Glen I needed to learn the racing line. We were given 4 20+ minute sessions each day and this was plenty of time to learn the line and get to know the track. Watkins Glen is a very high speed track with many turns taken at speeds above 70mph. Some are taken aboe 80mph. The highest speeds I achieved were all limited by my entry from the previous corner. On the back straight I was able to eventually build up from 105mph to a max that I saw hovering around 115mph. The front straight I only maxed out to 105mph. I will explain Larry and DarTTh's main straight adventure in a little while, keep reading
The NER sends out a very good and thoroughly written booklet when you register for one of their events. In this booklet is a description of the track, with all of the elevations and an explanation of each and every turn. They show the proper racing line and how to approach it. They tell you where the turn in is and where the track out is. I am not going to go over every term, but basically it is where you want to begin your turn into the corner and where the car should end up once you leave the corner. this is all based on taking the turn the right way, and at speed. the slower you are going the more you will have to "drive" to those points and not have the car just end up there. Sorry, that is the best I can describe it
I like to keep a stop watch with me in the car so I can keep track of my own progress through out the weekend and compare it to each time I am at a track. Students are not allowed to do this, but I drive solo and they allow it. I find it to be very useful for me to gauge how well I am taking turns and trying different lines as I learn how my car needs to be driven. The best time I achieved the first day was a 2:45.19 That was achieved on my last lap on the first day! I was very happy with that. But I was still learning the track and taking MOST of the turns wrong!
I was following all different cars to see how they were taking the turns to see if that would help me. I did the best when I was completly alone on the track and just learning the line on my own. It has been a long time since i was at a new track and it brought back some great memories for me. I once learned 4 tracks in the same year. Bridgehamton, Lime Rock, Pocono(3 different configurations) and Loudon. That was so much fun, but very tough!
The second day I knew I needed to get some pointers for a few different corners. I didn't ask for help the first day because I wanted to do this on my own and see how far I could get. I also was having brake problems again. My AP Racing brakes were held up in Canadian Customs! So much for NAFTA. I should have them installed this week.
I was sharing a garage with Geza and Mike O. They each drive A4's. Geza has a red 2.8 Avante and Mike has a 1.8t with quite a bit of work done to it. We all drove in the same Red Group and had lots of fun with each other on the track. Mike kept walking away from Geza and I because he had too much power to keep up with him. Geza loaned me a set of Porterfield brake pads for the front to see if that would help me. being as the pads were new I had to go and bed them in. The pads seemed to grab just a little bit better than the stock pads, but nothing to write home about.
My first session saw my lap times drop into the 2:41.6 range. I felt this was mostly do to the fact that I changed my approach speeds to a few different corners and I just lefted and or tapped the brakes and didn't HIT them! I did this on 3 different turns. I then was able to carry more speed to the next turn and keep carrying that speed around the track. I think this had more to do with my improved times than just the pads. I still didn't have any confidence in the brakes. I tried to brake at the same place and found that the car slowed just a tad better. I still had to hit the brakes WAY too hard in my estimation. This leads me right to my main straight story for those of you who have kept reading to this point
I asked Mike Collier one of the instructors that I met at Lime Rock to take my car for a drive. He showed me how to take a few turns in a much better way than I had been taking them. I timed him and he was doing 2:38's and 2:39's. I knew he was also taking a few turns faster than I would be doing that day. He helped me out quite a bit, just as he did at Lime Rock. When we got back in it was my turn to drive. He had a student he had to drive with so I asked his wife Michelle to come for a ride. She is also an instructor.
I started off quite well, taking what Mike showed me and applying it. I could tell how much faster I was going. Michelle gave me suggestions at different points and I made corrections as we reapproached the corners again. Then I came to the main straight. The straight is not much of a problem. For me the problem is turn one. You have to scrub off quite a bit of speed, at least I think I need to. I just don't have the confidence in the stock brakes that I really should have. I broke later than I should have and the brakes were just not slowing me down enough to where I was comfortable enough to make the turn. Turn one is about a 90* turn, maybe a little sharper and taken at speeds in the 75+mph range. I was doing 105mph on the straight. As I was trying to slow I had downshifted to 3rd and still was going too fast for me. I started to turn but realized right away that I was not going to stay on the track and decided to just go straight. The end of the main straight has quit a bit of run-off room with a really nice gravel trap, just like on TV! We hit that gravel trap in the 90mph range. We went straigth into it, then at the end I turned to put the car in a slight side-ways drift to help in stopping as the foam barrier was soon approaching. We came to rest with about 10 feet of gravel trap to go and another 8 feet of grass then the foam barrier. Once we came to a rest we both were ok. The car was none the worse for wear. Then all of a sudden . . .a HUGE cloud of dirt just engulfs us! DarTTh was now FILTHY, both outside and IN! It took me a few minutes to get myself loose from the gravel as I was buried pretty deep. I had to rock myself out just like in snow. The car kept stalling as i was spinning all 4 wheels back and forth. We eventually got out and onto the grass. I drove around to where a safety truck was across the track. He gave me the all clear sign and then directed me to the pits. They need to check on you to make sure you and the car are ok and to ask why you went off. We heard rocks falling from under the car the entire drive to the pits.
We both talked to the event master and he said I can go back out so long as the car was ok. It seemed fine to us, as I did a little testing on the drive to the pits. Once I got onto pitlane I heard LOTS of rocks begin to fall from my car. I knew that would not be fair to everyone else and just pulled into the paddock.
once in the paddock I put the car on 4 jack stands and began the 2 hour procedure of getting millions of rocks out of every nook and cranny of a TTQ! lol I will post some pictures later of this little procedure.
The funny thing is the 2 laps before I went off I was turning low 2:39's
I still had 2 more sessions to go and needed to get my car all cleaned up and back together. The next session I took it easy as I wanted to make sure the car was infact in one piece. It was and still is The last session I took Mike with me again. He talked me through every turn and gave me lots of confidence. I don't know my times as we were having too much fun and going too fast to take the times. I know I had to be in the 2:37-2:38 range though. Mike even said I was going faster than he was in certain turns, because it is my car and I will push it a little faster than he will.
I still had a problem with turn one and almost went off again, this time with Geza behind me! I stayed with it and made the turn, but was on the rumble strips on the turn out.
I can't hardly wait for the next Watkins Glen event. I am so looking forward to Summit Point in 2 weeks also.
I want to see more TT's at these events in the future! Come on, it is lots of fun and you learn all about how your car handles and what its limits are and what your limits are.
All in all I had a great time and we didn't have any rain to speak of except for one session on the first day we had a very small shower, but it didn't effect the track.
Any questions?
See Mike and Geza, I told everyone I went off!
Ok, off the soap box.
The drive to The Glen was not as far as Mapquest told me, nothing new their! Mapquest told me 345 miles and almost 6 hours, in reality it was 279 miles and 4 hours 35 minutes. The drive was very uneventful until I got to the Bimghamton area. That is about when it started to rain. Just a light drizzle on and off through the mountains. The torrential rains never occured that were predicted for the weekend until I made it to the hotel for tech inspection.
I got to the Seneca Lodge and went immediately to check in and then to Tech. As soon as I got into line the heavan opened up and Tech all of a sudden became a race to remain as dry as possible! lol My Tech lasted all of 2 minutes. Everyone was soaked to the bone and we all hoped this is not how the weekend was going to go. I went off to my room and dried out.
Ok, now to what everyone wants to know . . .
Since this was my first time at The Glen I needed to learn the racing line. We were given 4 20+ minute sessions each day and this was plenty of time to learn the line and get to know the track. Watkins Glen is a very high speed track with many turns taken at speeds above 70mph. Some are taken aboe 80mph. The highest speeds I achieved were all limited by my entry from the previous corner. On the back straight I was able to eventually build up from 105mph to a max that I saw hovering around 115mph. The front straight I only maxed out to 105mph. I will explain Larry and DarTTh's main straight adventure in a little while, keep reading
The NER sends out a very good and thoroughly written booklet when you register for one of their events. In this booklet is a description of the track, with all of the elevations and an explanation of each and every turn. They show the proper racing line and how to approach it. They tell you where the turn in is and where the track out is. I am not going to go over every term, but basically it is where you want to begin your turn into the corner and where the car should end up once you leave the corner. this is all based on taking the turn the right way, and at speed. the slower you are going the more you will have to "drive" to those points and not have the car just end up there. Sorry, that is the best I can describe it
I like to keep a stop watch with me in the car so I can keep track of my own progress through out the weekend and compare it to each time I am at a track. Students are not allowed to do this, but I drive solo and they allow it. I find it to be very useful for me to gauge how well I am taking turns and trying different lines as I learn how my car needs to be driven. The best time I achieved the first day was a 2:45.19 That was achieved on my last lap on the first day! I was very happy with that. But I was still learning the track and taking MOST of the turns wrong!
I was following all different cars to see how they were taking the turns to see if that would help me. I did the best when I was completly alone on the track and just learning the line on my own. It has been a long time since i was at a new track and it brought back some great memories for me. I once learned 4 tracks in the same year. Bridgehamton, Lime Rock, Pocono(3 different configurations) and Loudon. That was so much fun, but very tough!
The second day I knew I needed to get some pointers for a few different corners. I didn't ask for help the first day because I wanted to do this on my own and see how far I could get. I also was having brake problems again. My AP Racing brakes were held up in Canadian Customs! So much for NAFTA. I should have them installed this week.
I was sharing a garage with Geza and Mike O. They each drive A4's. Geza has a red 2.8 Avante and Mike has a 1.8t with quite a bit of work done to it. We all drove in the same Red Group and had lots of fun with each other on the track. Mike kept walking away from Geza and I because he had too much power to keep up with him. Geza loaned me a set of Porterfield brake pads for the front to see if that would help me. being as the pads were new I had to go and bed them in. The pads seemed to grab just a little bit better than the stock pads, but nothing to write home about.
My first session saw my lap times drop into the 2:41.6 range. I felt this was mostly do to the fact that I changed my approach speeds to a few different corners and I just lefted and or tapped the brakes and didn't HIT them! I did this on 3 different turns. I then was able to carry more speed to the next turn and keep carrying that speed around the track. I think this had more to do with my improved times than just the pads. I still didn't have any confidence in the brakes. I tried to brake at the same place and found that the car slowed just a tad better. I still had to hit the brakes WAY too hard in my estimation. This leads me right to my main straight story for those of you who have kept reading to this point
I asked Mike Collier one of the instructors that I met at Lime Rock to take my car for a drive. He showed me how to take a few turns in a much better way than I had been taking them. I timed him and he was doing 2:38's and 2:39's. I knew he was also taking a few turns faster than I would be doing that day. He helped me out quite a bit, just as he did at Lime Rock. When we got back in it was my turn to drive. He had a student he had to drive with so I asked his wife Michelle to come for a ride. She is also an instructor.
I started off quite well, taking what Mike showed me and applying it. I could tell how much faster I was going. Michelle gave me suggestions at different points and I made corrections as we reapproached the corners again. Then I came to the main straight. The straight is not much of a problem. For me the problem is turn one. You have to scrub off quite a bit of speed, at least I think I need to. I just don't have the confidence in the stock brakes that I really should have. I broke later than I should have and the brakes were just not slowing me down enough to where I was comfortable enough to make the turn. Turn one is about a 90* turn, maybe a little sharper and taken at speeds in the 75+mph range. I was doing 105mph on the straight. As I was trying to slow I had downshifted to 3rd and still was going too fast for me. I started to turn but realized right away that I was not going to stay on the track and decided to just go straight. The end of the main straight has quit a bit of run-off room with a really nice gravel trap, just like on TV!
We hit that gravel trap in the 90mph range. We went straigth into it, then at the end I turned to put the car in a slight side-ways drift to help in stopping as the foam barrier was soon approaching. We came to rest with about 10 feet of gravel trap to go and another 8 feet of grass then the foam barrier. Once we came to a rest we both were ok. The car was none the worse for wear. Then all of a sudden . . .a HUGE cloud of dirt just engulfs us! DarTTh was now FILTHY, both outside and IN! It took me a few minutes to get myself loose from the gravel as I was buried pretty deep. I had to rock myself out just like in snow. The car kept stalling as i was spinning all 4 wheels back and forth. We eventually got out and onto the grass. I drove around to where a safety truck was across the track. He gave me the all clear sign and then directed me to the pits. They need to check on you to make sure you and the car are ok and to ask why you went off. We heard rocks falling from under the car the entire drive to the pits.We both talked to the event master and he said I can go back out so long as the car was ok. It seemed fine to us, as I did a little testing on the drive to the pits. Once I got onto pitlane I heard LOTS of rocks begin to fall from my car. I knew that would not be fair to everyone else and just pulled into the paddock.
once in the paddock I put the car on 4 jack stands and began the 2 hour procedure of getting millions of rocks out of every nook and cranny of a TTQ! lol
I will post some pictures later of this little procedure.The funny thing is the 2 laps before I went off I was turning low 2:39's
I still had 2 more sessions to go and needed to get my car all cleaned up and back together. The next session I took it easy as I wanted to make sure the car was infact in one piece. It was and still is
The last session I took Mike with me again. He talked me through every turn and gave me lots of confidence. I don't know my times as we were having too much fun and going too fast to take the times. I know I had to be in the 2:37-2:38 range though. Mike even said I was going faster than he was in certain turns, because it is my car and I will push it a little faster than he will. I still had a problem with turn one and almost went off again, this time with Geza behind me! I stayed with it and made the turn, but was on the rumble strips on the turn out.
I can't hardly wait for the next Watkins Glen event. I am so looking forward to Summit Point in 2 weeks also.
I want to see more TT's at these events in the future! Come on, it is lots of fun and you learn all about how your car handles and what its limits are and what your limits are.
All in all I had a great time and we didn't have any rain to speak of except for one session on the first day we had a very small shower, but it didn't effect the track.
Any questions?
See Mike and Geza, I told everyone I went off!
07-19-2000, 06:03 AM
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Great review Larry. When's the movie coming out? Like the viper video . . . : )
<p>Lake Silver/Ebony 180FWD
Jamex Filter-Borla Exhaust-Garrett Stage2
17x8.5 Zender Monza Elegance-235/40x17 Yokohama AVS Sports
<img SRC="http://www.mint.net/~kentech/auditt/ttsig.jpg" BORDER=0>
Jamex Filter-Borla Exhaust-Garrett Stage2
17x8.5 Zender Monza Elegance-235/40x17 Yokohama AVS Sports
<img SRC="http://www.mint.net/~kentech/auditt/ttsig.jpg" BORDER=0>
07-19-2000, 06:10 AM
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Remember when I posted the "worst hit I ever took" was turn 1 in an Atlantic?
There was no gravel pit or foam blocks back then...just 4 stacked guard rails. WHAM. Off-camber entry to 1 at can be a real challenge, heh?
Surprised you did not comment on the beauty of the place.<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/cbsigx.jpg" borders="0">
Surprised you did not comment on the beauty of the place.<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/cbsigx.jpg" borders="0">
07-19-2000, 06:58 AM
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Heh, turn 1...
Anybody see the Busch race coverage this year where the driver lost brakes at turn 1? No gravel trap was gonna stop him! Good thing the big stryrofoam blocks were there. They're messy when hit, though.
I buried a VR6 Corrado to the door sills at the turn 1 gravel pit once, with a student in the car. At the same event, 2 993 C4s went in too fast, got off line, dropped two wheels and forgot the cardinal rule: don't yank the car back on track (beginner group). Identical wrecks, both totalled. They heavy steered back onto the track and when the tires caught grip, they rocketed into the inside guard rail, spun and clocked the rear of the car, too. You did the right thing, Larry!
BTW, you gotta push a little harder! My best @ the Glen was in the Corrado (front end heavy pig with only FWD, though a bit modified) at a 2:22 for the long course. A chipped TT with Quattro should be able to get down to that range.
I applied too late for this event, wish we were able to attend.
Todd
AWE Tuning
awe-tuning.com
I buried a VR6 Corrado to the door sills at the turn 1 gravel pit once, with a student in the car. At the same event, 2 993 C4s went in too fast, got off line, dropped two wheels and forgot the cardinal rule: don't yank the car back on track (beginner group). Identical wrecks, both totalled. They heavy steered back onto the track and when the tires caught grip, they rocketed into the inside guard rail, spun and clocked the rear of the car, too. You did the right thing, Larry!
BTW, you gotta push a little harder! My best @ the Glen was in the Corrado (front end heavy pig with only FWD, though a bit modified) at a 2:22 for the long course. A chipped TT with Quattro should be able to get down to that range.
I applied too late for this event, wish we were able to attend.
Todd
AWE Tuning
awe-tuning.com
07-19-2000, 07:05 AM
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Todd, thanks, now I know what time I should be shooting for! :)
Don't forget I am running Bridgestone RE730's! My brakes suck big time too!
I know I can get into the low 2:30's with race tires. Also the TTQ is a Fwd car! The quattro came on maybe 2 or 3 times each lap and LOTS of times in the gravel trap! Also, don't forget MY TTQ weighs 3330#'s because I have 150#'s worth of stereo and my harness bar and 2 sets of 6pt harnesses. The TTQ is also a heavier car than the Corrado.
I know I can get into the low 2:30's with race tires. Also the TTQ is a Fwd car! The quattro came on maybe 2 or 3 times each lap and LOTS of times in the gravel trap!
Also, don't forget MY TTQ weighs 3330#'s because I have 150#'s worth of stereo and my harness bar and 2 sets of 6pt harnesses. The TTQ is also a heavier car than the Corrado.
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07-19-2000, 07:11 AM
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I thought the "review" was too long as it was. I could have gone on even longer . . .
It is the most beautiful track I have been to so far. It really is layed out great. I did find it pretty funny that at the dinner the first night some people were talking about all of the blue armco all around the track and I said I had not noticed it! They looked at me like I was nuts. I honestly didn't take much notice of it. I was concentrating too much learning the line and not looking at how close the walls were to the edge of the track . . .I left that for the second day once it was mentioned to me! lol
07-19-2000, 07:14 AM
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Just as I was ready to come in for the kill...
the potential victum redefines the line for turn 1! LOL. It was great mixing it up with you out there. Great write-up, too. Next stop, Summit Point (in a street tired Boxster, maybe)!