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Both Burger Motorsport JB4 and ChipWerke type units would not be traceable if removed via superficial ECU scans or a check of the flash count but over power and/or over torque cases logged in either the ECU or TCU would probably be detectable if complete forensic analysis of either or both control units is done. They are not without risk of indirect detection but less risk than the direct detection via their presence or flash count of flash based tunes. That said, it is purely academic at this point the case of the TT RS as neither supplier has product currently for that car. It is probably also important to note that the JB4 units carry the note "Competition Race Vehicles Only".
yup very true, Ive seen a auto maker dig really deep into an investigation to prove that ecu parameters were altered. They won
Instead of opinions, let me inject some real facts. I have had MKI TT, 2 MKII TTS's, 1 MKIII TTS, now have a MKIII TT RS with APR tunes and have collected some performance and dyno data before and after tunes along the way.
First up is one of the MKII TTS where in the image below where comparison runs 3 and 4 are before the tune and the main run and comparison run 1 are after the tune:
Second up is a MKIII (2016 launch edition) where the main run is before the tune and comparison runs 1 and 3 are after the tune:
Lastly the dyno results of the same 2016 MKIII TTS done on my car while I watched before and after the tune:
If these results are what you get from snake oil, I'll take a case!
I agree that APR is one of the few legitimate tuners that provide meaningful before/after data. That said, you still must do your homework. I looked at APR for a tune of my MK 2 base TT with the TFSI engine and after looking at the APR data before and after I said "why bother" because the improvement shown by the APR dyno tests was minimal (a few % across most of the band) without a FMIC. What can be squeezed out of any tune depends on what the engineers left behind to exploit and that varies a lot from engine to engine. But at least APR provides the honest data so the customer can make an informed choice, far better than most tuners who just say "an increase of XX HP".
Last edited by Vegas-roadster; 06-22-2018 at 05:40 PM.
Both Burger Motorsport JB4 and ChipWerke type units would not be traceable if removed via superficial ECU scans or a check of the flash count but over power and/or over torque cases logged in either the ECU or TCU would probably be detectable if complete forensic analysis of either or both control units is done. They are not without risk of indirect detection but less risk than the direct detection via their presence or flash count of flash based tunes. That said, it is purely academic at this point the case of the TT RS as neither supplier has product currently for that car. It is probably also important to note that the JB4 units carry the note "Competition Race Vehicles Only".
With the JB4 the ECU sees stock torque and boost value. Unlike other piggy backs it also does not rely on the ECU to adapt for fuel as it has its own fuel control mechanism.
We have our own RS3 and are nearly done with a unit for those cars for people who want to go the piggy back route.
We operate out of CA so we need to have a million disclaimers
With the JB4 the ECU sees stock torque and boost value. Unlike other piggy backs it also does not rely on the ECU to adapt for fuel as it has its own fuel control mechanism.
We have our own RS3 and are nearly done with a unit for those cars for people who want to go the piggy back route.
We operate out of CA so we need to have a million disclaimers
Hi George - I think we swapped emails yesterday when I inquired about the future availability our your unit for the RS3/TT RS engine. Thanks for your timely and complete response. As to your response here, can you confirm wether or not if the TCU also logs over power or torque events and if so if your unit will be able to avoid such? Glad to hear the the 'completion only' disclaimer on your products is a function of the nanny state of California.
Hi George - I think we swapped emails yesterday when I inquired about the future availability our your unit for the RS3/TT RS engine. Thanks for your timely and complete response. As to your response here, can you confirm wether or not if the TCU also logs over power or torque events and if so if your unit will be able to avoid such? Glad to hear the the 'completion only' disclaimer on your products is a function of the nanny state of California.
TCU does not have long term storage. The torque value is supplied to it from the ECU and can stored it only in a fault freeze frame. If ECU value is stock then TCU value will also be stock in such a case.
06-22-2018, 12:44 PM
