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any experience with high carbon or cryo rotors ?

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Old 10-16-2014, 05:22 PM
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Default Once again...

I have been on the board actively since 2006. I have read virtually every post since then, posted thousands and read it back to 2003/start. I essentially don't remember hardly a post about warped OE rotors on a D3. Good enough sample set? No, not just making it up or whatever. In general, at the rotor sizes of a D3 for the U.S. market, the braking system is pretty generously sized and owners historically relatively mature drivers, so I really wouldn't expect a lot of issues here. Both D2's and C5 4.2s had smaller brakes for similar weight and so again I would expect the D3 to be blissfully unremarkable problem wise and quite solid as far as performance for most owners.

I have also run both OE rotors and OE pads, and Brembo rotors and EBC pads, in all combinations and all fine on the D3. Thus, I'm not vested in some OE religious mantle or whatever. D3 OE pads might be Textars, and in pads have run Mintex, Ate, MetalMaster/Repco (old Australian Bendix) and Carbotech, and pulled off Jurid's, Pagid's and a few others as OES.

I never said "bullet proof" on OE rotors or its synonym, but we seem to be going round and round about now. Yeah, 99%+ is about good enough for me as far as summarizing and inferring from available data, and reading, following, and participating in virtually every post from the largest sample set available that isn't auf Deutsch. I would have thought that would be credible. If not, I'll move on w/ other posters to spend my time to be honest. It seems like you have come to some decision already.

You may be fine with Ate's or perhaps better yet with Brembo's if found; my hunch is more likely Brembo's of the two might be OES here, but again it's an unknown AFAIK. I would never run Hawks myself given more than a few critical posts I have followed, but as I said brakes are somewhat like religion and politics on forums. Good luck.

Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 10-16-2014 at 05:51 PM.
Old 10-16-2014, 08:40 PM
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Default Not the metallurgist here, but I think ceramics can leave deposits

Kind of a classic no-no with ceramics can be to switch brands or to go ceramic from back to conventional, at least not without a swept area cleanup and proper bedding. The deposits can then cause chatter folks can interpret as warping. Among the reasons you find a bedding compound in some ceramics to scrub the prior stuff off. From conventional to ceramic not prone to same problems from what I understand + personal multi brand Euro and Asian brake experience, assuming standard bedding of new ones. As one example, Carbotech says:
If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads.

If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced.

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Frequently Asked Questions
In this TireRack link, your prior input is covered in "What causes brake rotors to overheat and warp?" Mine is covered in "What is brake judder?" http://www.tirerack.com/FAQ/results.jsp?category=Brakes

For others w/ interest, basic Stoptech/Centric backgrounder on bedding and transfer layer: Brake Pad Bed-In
Old 10-16-2014, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MP4.2+6.0
"What causes brake rotors to overheat and warp?"
Only right sentence in there is: "Another primary cause of warping is caused by excessive heat, which can soften the metal and allow it to be reshaped", but he doesn't say/know why. The rest is classic garage/pub jibber jabber.
Old 10-17-2014, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mishar
Only right sentence in there is: "Another primary cause of warping is caused by excessive heat, which can soften the metal and allow it to be reshaped", but he doesn't say/know why. The rest is classic garage/pub jibber jabber.
I have only experianced one set of warped rotors in almost 40 years of driving. But the first 8 years, none had rotors. So 30 years driving 35 - 40K miles a year with at least front rotors. I still drive that much.
Whether Chevy, Ford, Honda, or whatever rotors never seem to warp and pads last 80 - 100K. For me, lots of highway driving.
My off roading friends seem to warp them a lot. They blame it on getting them hot and driving through water.
Somehow the massive front rotors on the Sequoia "warped" and my local shop turned them. No shimmy any more. Still original pads at 85K. But the wife drives it, and around town a lot.
Old 10-17-2014, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by awdinut
Time for front brakes and I am searching for a rotor that wont warp. I have had a lot of trouble with warpage vibration with two different sets of Zimmerman rotors, so I want to try something different.

The Frozen brand cryogenic treated rotors are $70 more per rotor than the Centric brandhigh carbon rotors, I forget what Zimmermans cost.

So I am wondering if these types of non-conventional rotors are any better for longevity than OEM types to justify the extra price ?
Ed, I'm surprised you haven't adapted a set of carbon fiber brakes from the VWAG Skunkworks yet...
I don't know about cryo treating cast iron but I have seen it work on steel...
My experience with cryo treating comes from firsthand experience treating steel end mills. There was a company locally setting up to treat tooling of all kinds. They offered test treatment of several tools that were used in production situations (meaning very little variable - CNC machines doing the same operations on same materials over and over). There were two applications which I remember where we increased tool life 22%(!) I would never have believed it had I not been involved actually counting parts. One was cutting aluminum and one steel IIRC. Treating carbide was supposed to work as well but I did not see improvement, and my access to the machinery/data was limited because TRW thinks everyone is out to steal their secrets. Bottom line was, the cheap end mills cost 30% of their cost to treat, so borderline gain if you consider machine downtime, etc,etc... The more expensive relatively tiny carbide bits would've paid for the treatment with even a slight increase in tool life (they charge per pound to treat), but ironically our biggest carbide cutter line already treated theirs!
I suggest you buy a set of rotors and have one cryo-treated locally. It may sound crazy but so did the idea of a giant balloon filled with hydrogen gas carrying passengers across the Atlantic... wait, bad example.
Tom
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