acadianbob

Yes, I am concerned about this possibility.

What a breach of psychological contract with their core consumer . . . . .

Pacific Fisher

VW was supposed to submit its "fix" for affected engines to the the United States by yesterday.
We should know fairly soon what VW submitted.

Hockeymonkey

This is getting so out of control. VAW's strategy is to reveal info only when caught and forced. I am sure the EPA will fine them etc.....but I want to know what the fix will be. At the dealer yesterday and I was told that the credit card deal on the VW side is not going well. The Audi dealer said they have not done any buy-backs with AOA and they probably never will. They speculated that AOA will likely add very favorable trade in values plus extra incentives towards the new car. AOA keeps the loyalty, does the fix to the used car and then sells the used car legally to a customer who may not know how much the car is dumbed down. AOA gets 2 sales!! Dealer said that would make them most happy for sure.

eric strauss

… remember, this unfolded because of a University testing project (WVU) bringing the difference between real world and test bed emissions to light. The EPA was asleep at the switch, partly because they remain so underfunded and hogtied by Congress.

The competition for auto sales is fierce and other companies likely compromised their emissions systems to meet market demands. The increased oxides of nitrogen (NOx) production included a decrease in C02, fuel consumption and an increase in power. They traded a reduction in greenhouse gas for an increase in a local pollutant associated with tissue irritation. Overall, quite a mess.

However, BMW, Opel and others are implicated in similar manipulation of emissions management systems and we await those findings:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...her-automakers

It is quite saddening as I am old enough to remember the really dark days for Audi following the "unintended acceleration" debacle of the 1980's. Prior to that, Audi was growing in the U.S., had captured national and international rally championships, IMSA, etc. John Buffum and Michelle Mouton were heroes (at least in New England where rallies were popular). Then wham, Audi sales plummeted and the real possibility of a U.S. retreat was in the offing.

Well, Audi is back and having unprecedented sales success - at least through October 2015. The future is clouded again as the public will takes out its wrath on the automakers (as they sip coffee from plastic cups with phthalates, wear clothes made in sweatshops and accept usury level fees from the banking industry and cable companies). This too shall pass and public lasers will target other elements of public corruption.

If selling your Audi in disgust makes you feel better, than by all means do so. Each of us must take a stand on something as that is how real change happens in a democracy. we cannot leave governance to others. However, remember that these "cheating" diesels are so much cleaner that their brethren from only a couple of decades ago. I think what galls us is the intentional deception, as the resulting compromise is one of many possible appropriate engineering solutions that could have been implemented on these power plants (we have discussed this often in my courses).

I soothed my anger last night watching the Paul Newman film, "Winning". It reminds me of the fun of motorsport…

He was a genuinely fine human being, his charity was a supporter of our Urban Ecology Institute in Boston and I was drawn to his coupling of love for cars & racing to improving the public sphere.

Happy Motoring

Eric

Yoshimura

I was just bugging you guys...

snagitseven

There is nothing in the article you cited that claims BMW or Opal have manipulated test results per the EPA or other agencies. The article quotes suppositions by others that the the problem is widespread but offers no specific evidence beyond VAG at this point.

"A BMW spokesman said the company’s vehicles meet emissions requirements in both laboratory testing and in real-world use, and noted that ICCT also came to that conclusion in its study. He added that neither the EPA nor the California Air Resources Board has approached BMW concerning any “defeat device” issue."

eric strauss

The caption from the article suggests that future investigations may yield similar results from other manufacturers:

“Other manufacturers are basically on the same line” as Volkswagen, said Francois Cuenot, Transport & Environment’s air quality officer.

Nico Muzi, the organization’s spokesman, went further, saying Volkswagen is “just the tip of the iceberg.”

Muzi added that discrepancies in lab and on-road emissions are “happening across the board.” The differences between the results, he said, “are so much, it can’t be explained.”


Here is the specific reference to the other marques (I wasn't expecting to have to reference all of my discussion points). I was including an overall article for info - not a complete review article… see the second paragraph below:

Diesel BMW, Mercedes, Opel, PSA Cars Suspected Of Manipulating Emissions Tests Too [Updated]

"In CO2 tests, T&E says almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50 percent higher than the laboratory tests. The BMW 5-Series and Peugeot 308 achieve just under 50 percent higher than in the lab.

Add a more worrying fact: for virtually every new model that comes onto the market, the gap between test and real-world performance leaps. With the launch of the VW Golf Mk7, the gap between test and real-world CO2 emissions jumped from 22 percent to 41 percent, while for the new Mercedes C-Class it rose from 37 percent to 53 percent. For the Renault Clio IV, the gap almost doubled from 19 percent to 34 percent. These results lead T&E and ICCT to believe that more automakers are using “defeat devices”.


My point is, that software defeat devices are a cheat - so it over inflating tires, stripping interiors, thinning oils to dangerous levels and all of the other conceits that are applied to meet these regulations. This isn't NASCAR or F1 where cheating is a central part of the sport and a bit of a laugh (I am a big fan of both - racing that is - not cheating). As consumers, we place trust in these products - especially cars. I don't own an airplane or a boat, so my cars are the second most expensive commitment that I make - albeit a depreciating one. I am not allowed to "cheat" on my monthly payments - or send conterfit currency to pay my bills. It seems we might expect the same from our favored marques.

snagitseven

BMW's response in the last few paragraphs of your most recent linked article continues to staunchly deny using any device to manipulate emission testing. They also question the testing method as mentioned in the report.

I'm not defending BMW or any other car maker or against claims that VAG is "just the tip of the iceberg". It's just that until official test results are in for BMW and others, that currently VAG is the only maker at this point that has been proven beyond a doubt to use devices or software to circumvent emissions testing.

Of course, this could change if it turns out that indeed, there's an iceberg lurking to threaten the titanic car industry.

Hockeymonkey

While others might be involved maybe..I think this is another PR tactic to misdirect attention from VW.
At this point I am pissed....I love the TDI power and fuel economy but I do not want to drive an illegally polluting vehicle (and I don't want to hear about other trucks, child labor, or other companies/EPA is bad bs.....). Had the sales guy said to me - great power, mpg and pollutes about 9x more than the standard all for $60K, I would have walked. They LIED to me. VW buy my car back back.....
PS Have you ever smelled the diesel particulate burn down cycle that the car does? It wreaks!!! No way that is clean....

Redd

bobby-
"Dealer is still dilli-dolling about taking the car back."
AFAIK as of now, VW is not authorizing any buy-backs so the dealer would be eating any loss on your car. That puts him in a hard place, so the dilli-dolling is understandable. You might get a manager to contact AoA and try to set up a conference call from his office but at this point, I don't think anyone wants to be the first to set precedents. If your mileage is low enough, maybe Audi will work with you. But so far all I read is that Audi is being very reluctant to be proactive about anything with anyone, unless their $500 cards impress you.
Your best bet might be to make a written contact with the dealer, cc'd to AoA, by certified mail, looking for an early and reasonable accommodation. Personally I'd expect the dealer is stuck (and probably not legally obligated) while Audi is obligated, but will postpone anything like a formal policy and drag their heels as long as they can. They don't seem to realize that the longer they drag this out, the longer they'll take more damage to their sales.
Good luck though. Perhaps if you offer them a confidentiality agreement promising not to disclose the terms of your settlement, they'll be motivated.