frank

must be Halloween.

Audi is trying to scare everyone.

wonder if they paid EC to do that article??<ul><li><a href="https://www.audiworld.com/forum/m.new/a6/msgs/31144.phtml">crosspost from A6 board</a></li></ul>

WClark

Things can go as he described if a car is pinging. The added heat stress in the combustion chamber - remember a pressure fed engine is already operating at much higher temps than a normally aspirated engine - can lead to those things. Turbocharging has come a long way with the help of computer controls to keep this from happening, but chipping does push the limits of safe operating temps, pressure, timing and fuel octane so if something takes the engine over the edge and the computer cannot correct it pinging will result and that can lead to an eventual meltdown.

My advice is if anyone with a chipped engine feels any pinging, get off the throttle immediately and contact your chip maker to discuss what might be happening and your options (for instance higher octane fuel, backing off the chip settings or changing out other components to increase the margins). Driving situations vary all over the country and at different times of the year so a standard program that puts the engine's operating parameters near the edge at WOT isnt going to work everywhere or all the time. You (all of us, not you in particular Frank) need to be aware of that fact and stay alert.

CK

No doubt that Audi keeps it's own interest in mind. But in doing so, it must balance the needs of its customers. There dozens of factors to consider (political, economic, strategic) when producing a vehicle for the mass market. I don't agree with AoA on everything they do. But they do have a business to run. As far as the A4 is concerned, Audi has produced a blockbuster car - one that has provided outstanding value for the driving enthusiast.

As with everything in life, there is a compromise. In terms of the A4 1.8T, Audi has felt that a reasonable warrantee can be provided for a light pressure turbo. Personally, I think the engine is somewhat de-tuned from the factory. Others would agree - and hence you have the success of APR, GIAC, MTM, etc. But the basic issue boils down to economics. At some point, the bean counters offered their "opinion" in the process of bringing the A4 to market. Although the role is nothing but painful to all others, they serve a very important role. You were able to get a world-class sports sedan at a base price of $26k. If you're willing to pay an extra $2k ($28k for base), then AoA may be convinced to boost the output from the factory. They extra money might be the present value of future added expense to warrantee a higher stress engine.

The designers at Audi know exactly what they are doing. After all, the did boost output for the 1.8T to 180hp for 2001. It wasn't a simple chip-upgrade. There was a substantial redesign of the engine internals. Now why would they go through that expense if a a simple chip upgrade did not decrease engine reliability?

It's true that some dealers and AoA will try to minimize any warrantee work that is incurred. But that is to be expected. And it's frustrating as hell. But the flip-side is that you take your own chances when you start to modify your car. I doubt any dealer would blame a brake problem on a modified chip. But it is perfectly reasonable to question blown rings on a chip - the possiblity exist that improper programming can cause that. In that situation, you can get screwed. But that is the risk you take. I didn't want to take that risk, so I bought a 2.8. It has good pep and there's no question of warrantee.

Regarding the EC article, I've found that their research is very good. Although they aren't perfect, they are decent at providing objective information regarding our cars. The particular article in question (A4 chipping I assume) was very well written and reasonably accurate. I'm guessing that most people who've worked on cars or done any type of automotive engineering would agree. Keep in mind that the decision to NOT chip was subjective on EC's part. The gains from chipping were there; EC simply decided that it was in their best interest at that point. Again, they never said that chipping is not worthwhile.

Sorry for the rant. Nomex is on.

-Charlie

siberian

It's obviously written by a ricer or a BMW owner who's tired of getting beat by A4's!

WECoyote-SuperGenius

just purchased (awaiting delivery)'01 A4 1.8t/tip/quattro/sport suspension/convienience pkg/cold weather pkg/ black-grey leatherette for wife:
question(s):
1. you state 180 hp, thought it was 170 hp, was hp number upped?
2. paying $29,000.00 plus sales tax, fair price?

my ride: '00 S4 laser red/6spd
any comments?

CK

The TT is 180hp for the base model. I became a bit dazed in the process of ranting. : ) You're right about the hp rating on the 1.8T.

You seemed to have gotten a fair price. The best way to check is to go the Autobytel or another similar web site and get an invoice breakdown of the exact car you ordered. I've found the numbers to be fairly reliable. In particular to the Northeast area, I think that 4-5% over invoice is a pretty fair deal. I guess it depends on the region as well as the scarcity of the car you ordered. (Avant's typically command a higher premium.)

WECoyote-SuperGenius

used the kelly blue book online and their numbers (dealer tissue) were right on the $$$. dealer HAD to get 1,500.00 over tissue, even though i laid down forty-three large last year when i bought my S4. could have bought a jetta glx VR6 for $600.00 over tissue, but previous all wheel drive (1990 coupe quattro and current S4) experience told me to get the wife the A4, ordered it the way i wanted it, heh heh, except for the tip.

White BMW 330I

I've yet to read about the additional mods that were required when Audi upped HP to 170hp. However, I did read about the mods that were required when Audi bumped the TT's HP to 225. Either way, I find it ironic that Audi sells chipped cars in Europe with full warranties. I think whomever the guy was that said that exaggerated a little, and is also applying some AOA politics. If I'm correct the 225HP, Audi TT still uses a K03.

My car is out of warranty anyway. I've been on this board since 1996. The amount of blown turbos and engine related problem that I've read about is minimal. Out of that amount, more turbos were blown with the Stock ECU programming than with a modified one. There is some truth to what he says, but that applies to all modified engines Turbo or Non-Turbo. Sometimes authoritative figures are as full of $hit as Non-authoritative ones.