Timing Issue

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Mar 29, 2011 | 10:56 AM

gsl365

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Timing Issue

Own a 2002 A4 3.0. Had timing belt replaced at 100,000. Car ran fine for 10,000 miles after replacement. Last week check engine light came on and occasionally car would surge when stopping. Read error code P0012 - Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded. Took car back to the mechanic who changed the belt. He downloaded latest software version into computer which did not fix the problem. Mechanic said it could be the hydraulic cam pulleys but cannot confirm without pulling engine apart. Is it possible the timing belt was not installed properly? If so would there have been an immediate problem with the car instead of 10,000 miles later? Could the belt have slipped causing this problem? Any help would be appreciated

Mar 29, 2011 | 11:20 AM

lyleswk

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From: Fort Worth, Tx

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsl365

He downloaded latest software version into computer which did not fix the problem.

What does this mean? Kind of suspicious.

As far as the code, I believe the V6 has cam sensors (hall effect sensors) at the firewall side of the engine. I also know that on the 1.8 it is a simple DIY; no disassembly required. Maybe you need to find another mech. Any input from you 3.0 owners?

edit: If it ran fine for 10,000 miles, doubt the TB was installed incorrectly.

Last edited by lyleswk; Mar 29, 2011 at 11:26 AM.

Mar 29, 2011 | 02:04 PM

gstq

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I would suspect that the one of the cam's is off by a tooth. Do you notice a difference on startup? Mine sounded more throaty/tractorish on startup. I've owned my car from new and could tell the difference immediately although the car would run fine and at highway speeds would drive smoothly. Anyhow 2000 miles after the belt was changed the check engine light came on again and I took it back to the dealer that installed the belt and sure enough it was off by one tooth.
Its hard to believe that belt is installed incorrecly because the car runs fine for the most part.

Mar 29, 2011 | 11:04 PM

Ritz

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From: Northern VA / DC Area

It's unlikely to be the "belt off by a tooth" if the car ran like a top for 10k miles before experiencing a problem. However, the only way to be sure is to check the timing marks at TDC and make sure the timing belt tensioner is keeping adequate pressure on the belt. It could also simply be a bad cam position sensor. There are FOUR of them on the 30V and they cost about $40/each.

Mar 30, 2011 | 03:50 AM

lyleswk

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From: Fort Worth, Tx

So Ritz, the 3.0 has four sensors, one on each cam? Are they on the front or rear of the engine? And is the installation similar to the 1.8, i.e. 2 bolts off, replace the sensor, and 2 bolts on?

Mar 30, 2011 | 06:39 AM

Ritz

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From: Northern VA / DC Area

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyleswk

So Ritz, the 3.0 has four sensors, one on each cam? Are they on the front or rear of the engine? And is the installation similar to the 1.8, i.e. 2 bolts off, replace the sensor, and 2 bolts on?

Hey there,

I haven't done this on a 30V. It's pretty easy on the 1.8T though.

And yes, there's one per cam and they're on the firewall side.

Best,

Mar 30, 2011 | 06:54 AM

gsl365

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Thanks for the comments. All four of the cam sensors are fine per the mechanic. The download supposedly is normal protocol to upgrade the ecu when there are codes like that before looking for mechanical problems. The mechanic said 9 times out of 10 that fixes the problem. I tried to research the hydraulic cam pulleys and there is not much mention of these in the forums. That makes me believe there are not many problems with them. Hope gstq is right and one of the cams is off by a tooth.

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Mar 30, 2011 | 08:02 AM

lyleswk

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Joined: Feb 2010

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From: Fort Worth, Tx

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsl365

All four of the cam sensors are fine per the mechanic.

Trick question for your mechanic: How does he know that? If he says he checked the ohm out, ask him what the value was. If it wasn't something like 10 to 20 ohms, he's, well, you make the conclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsl365

The download supposedly is normal protocol to upgrade the ecu when there are codes like that before looking for mechanical problems. The mechanic said 9 times out of 10 that fixes the problem.

Never heard of this unless your car is modded and there is a remap of the fuel / air or something like that and then I wouldn't trust any mechanic to do that. APR or GIAC yes, but mechanic, no. Software either works or doesn't. Has anyone else heard of this "protoco"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsl365

I tried to research the hydraulic cam pulleys and there is not much mention of these in the forums. That makes me believe there are not many problems with them. Hope gstq is right and one of the cams is off by a tooth.

In retrospect, I would start here assuming the sensor check out okay. Even though you didn't notice it for 10K miles. If so, I would ask he shop to reimburse you for any work done since then as well as fixing it. Reasoning: During start up and acceleration, the timing is advanced. If you are a cog off, what the ECU is expecting regarding cam positions is not achievable and therefore the, fault thrown. The reason it didn't show up for 10K miles? Maybe the belt has "stretched just enough to have these values go outside of the software tolerance. Reloading the software won't change this by the way...

Last edited by lyleswk; Mar 30, 2011 at 08:14 AM.