Speedbird

Hi folks,

First, thank you to everyone that has replied to some of my previous postings. The information on pricing and local dealerships has been very helpful.

At this point, I find myself torn... I currently own a 1995 Lexus LS400 that I love. Up until a few months ago, my wife also had an ES300 when the SUV bug bit her and we bought her a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have always liked Lexus cars, and have always been very satisfied with the quality of the vehicles and the dealer network. The only downside, and it's a big one is that the LS400 is awful in bad weather. Snow, ice, even heavy rain, forget about, even with traction control, the car slides everywhere. After almost getting into a serious accident in some minor icy conditions, my family begged me to get a new car.

I fell in love with the A6 almost immediately! AWD, the interior, the speed of the 2.7T. WOW! Great car... But here are my concerns:

(1) Is the build quality bad? It seems after hanging out on this forum for a while the A6 has some bugs. I'm worried that the car wont hold up for the next 5-6 years.

(2) Dealer network. Not even close to Lexus! Very unimpressed with Audi dealers so far... Ok, so maybe it's not fair to compare to Lexus, but still..

(3) Questionable reputation of Audi of America. Do I have the wrong impression, or is AoA not interested in customer service?

I really want to buy this car, but I'm worried I'll be buying a lot of flash and no substance when it comes to the long haul. Can I expect this car to last 5-6 years and 80-90K miles? Will AoA take care of its customers not to mention the dealer network?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make an educated decision.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Bill

muhammadc

1) No, build quality is great on Audis! You hear more from those who have problems than those who don't, remember. There is the possibility of a buggy car, though... could make it 4 years trouble free and then have 5 minor things go wrong and cause you a bunch of hassle. It is hard to know.

2) You are correct. If you can't find a good Audi dealer near you, think hard about buying an A6. The dealer can make your ownership experience much worse than it should be.

3) AOA's reputation is a lot better than it was, say, 10 years ago, but it isn't quite up there with BMW and MB (and Lexus for that matter) yet. Give them time. They seem to want to change the problems within the company, and also the problems with the dealer network. Doesn't happen overnight, but by the time your 5-6 years is up, the effects of the change in attitude now may just be getting around to the consumer level. Really it is the dealers, not AOA, that are the problem...

If you ask me the dealer is key. If you can find a good dealer, get the A6. They are out there, you just have to look. Do ask here, too... about dealers in your area.

melange2.7t'01

I'm on my fifth quattro. I'd agree the dealer service experience is important. Fortunately, that has not been a problem. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the quattro feature is great---lots of rain, snow in the mountains etc. I have not had a serious reliability problem with any of them. I did have a cooling system problem (pinpoint leak) in my S6 in the middle of Idaho with no dealer around. A local shop (non-Audi dealer) eventually got it fixed after waiting a week to get the needed part. I would say that body integrity in particular has improved immensely since the latter 1980's, when I first started buying quattros. And the 2.7 is a fantastic engine. I've now got 7,000 miles with absolutley no problems.

audiconvert

What I like about the A6 2.7 is that it's all substance and no flash. When I think of flash I think of Japanese cars. But that's a personal opinion I guess. I've always had Japanese cars and my 2.7t is my first German car - and first Audi. I think the build quality is better than Japanese. I compared it to my dad's new Acura and the quality and fit is much better. Look carefully at the gaps between the hood and fenders and you'll see. And also look at the plastic painted skirts around the fender well of a Japanese car and compare it to Audi. The Audi uses stiffer materials and the construction and fit is better quality.

I'd say Audi is a good buy. I think time will show that today's Audis are competitive and will yield customer satisfaction as well as the best of em. Audi's on an uphill slope - not up there yet - but getting there. For that reason I think it's a good buy. It's also a blast to drive and looks better than anything on the road.

Finman

With regards to build quality, I agree completely with the remarks of audiconvert.
I, too was a Japanese car buyer and staunch advocate for 15+ years. Not that I am opposed to them now, they are still an excellent choice for most people. Most people however, are NOT car enthusiasts and don't spend hours and hours wasting time thinking about their cars as true Audi (and I suspect, BMW) owners do. (The reason I do not include Mercedes is that often they are not enthusiasts, they are wealthy blue hairs buying a symbol, not the driving machine that a MB is.) Back to my point. Japanese cars (Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus) are, in general, near flawless, smooth, reliable, durable machines that usually use good quality materials and are pleasantly presented. That being said, for the most part, they are uninspiring and all too similar in feel. Almost too smooth, too vanilla. It is difficult to put my finger on it, but I think most who LOVE cars know.
Audi has become nearly an obsession for me ever since my first test drive in an A4 several years ago when it still had the VR6 engine. It fit like a glove and was tighter than anything (car-wise) I had ever been in. My quest finally culminated in purchasing the A6 4.2 1 1/2 months ago and I could not be more satisfied (at least until my wife's S6 Avant arrives

A second note on build quality. Just take an hour or two and go to an Audi dealer, get in any car (A4,6,8 doesn't matter) and look at everything--the feel and density of the plastic of the dashboard, the exacting fit of the aluminum trim around the front (and rear!!!) air vents, the fit of all the pieces of the console, the heft and mechanical smoothness of the handles above each door (inside), the density and fit of the real wood inserts, the fit of the leather on the door panels and around all the seats, etc. Then move to the outside and note the tightness of the panel gaps, the feel of the door handles, the perfection of the paint, the fit and finish of the grille, headlights, and other trim pieces, etc. I could go on all night.
If you still wonder about the quality after that, drive one for 10-20 miles (if they let you). Then go to a competitors showroom and do the same thing. I bet you won't spend more than 10 minutes before you notice the superior quality of the Audi.
With regards to dealers, true many suck, but they only really have to be OK. In the rare case of a true lemon, a bad experience with a dealer will probably drive you from Audi forever, but if your car is like 99.9% of others you will never want to leave. We don't live with the dealer, we live with the car.
There may be a few bugs in some cars that get a lot of forum space here, but in almost every case (except the occasional extreme) these are only minor annoyances and the owners would rather lose a limb than their car. There are annoying things about Japanese cars also (eg. my Integra's AC sucked from day 1 (normal)--very tough in San Antonio, and my wife's Outback is a lemon, and the dash lights kept going out in my CRX, etc.)
Will the car last 80-90k and 5-6 years? Would suspect more like 200-250k and 10-15 years, of course with maintenance. This forum is a sounding board for many (mostly minor) gripes, and unfortunately, sometimes it seems a little too focused on the negative, but really what most people want is to optimize their experience, avoid major problems, and push to make the cars perfect which is probably what Audi ideally wants also.

Bill, this is not intended as a rip at all, but, I can't help but wonder if you are concerned with build quality, vehicle longevity, reliability, and customer service, how on earth did you and your wife purchase (and spend money on) a Jeep Grand Cherokee? Seriously! I appreciate that this time you want to make an educated decision, but you guys couldn't have been educated prior to that purchase
I am not a wealthy person, but I managed to get myself to the point were I could purchase virtually any sub-$75k car this time and after 5-6 years of researching and waiting for the right car, the A6 was what I bought and passed on all choices from BMW, MB, Lexus, Jaguar, and Volvo.

This car is ALL SUBSTANCE with little flash, that is one reason why I and many others buy this car.

Enjoy the research--you will come to the right decision.
Sorry to take up so much of anyone's time who make it this far

Bollinger

The British auto magazine picks it their favorite SUV in its size/price class. They take it over the Disco II, Nissans (different names there) and such. They like its quality, reliability and class. Of course, they also like the price.

muhammadc

JGC isn't bad at all until they hit 40k miles, then they start to loosen up and show wear...

Kenny

If you like your Lexus, and the way it drives, I see no reason why you should change unless, you're looking for a more unique, more involving car to drive that has feel for the road.. The majority of Lexus owners who love their cars do not really care for this..

Yes, Audi service really has something to be desired. You're basically playing russian roulette in the hopes you'll find a local dealer who treats you anything near the calibre that Lexus offers..

The build integrity of German cars are quite good, but they require more attention than Japanese cars and a competent mechanic who can look after your car.. The 5-6 year mark is around the point where things other than routine maintenance go wrong with the car.. German cars are engineered around the driving experience, whereas Japanese cars are designed around efficient assembly methods, ease of maintenance, and reliability..

If you're looking for a smooth, quiet, trouble free ride with minimum maintenance, I'd say stick to the Lexus.. If the idea of a more involving, more exciting car intrigues you, go for the Audi.. You won't regret Quattro.. But expect larger repair bills when things go wrong, and they do require more looking after.

Rick Foster

For high-quality assembly and long, trouble-free operation, not much beats a Lexus. For poor-weather performance, not much beats a Quattro!

Current Audi build quality and longevity is very good, maybe 95% of the Lexus standard. But, as you point out, Lexus rwd performance in rain or snow is not great. Neither is BMW, Mercedes, or other rwd cars. In contrast, the A6 performs extremely well in normal conditions and outstandingly well in poor conditions. It's mind-boggling to drive uphill from a standing start, in 6 inches of snow, and to just pull steadily away (with power switching to the different wheels and the traction control brake operation kicking in as necessary).

The fact that the A6's combination of performance, handling, great looks, and stunning interiors is available for a much lower price than competitors is just icing on the cake.

Good luck!

Finman

it may seem reliable and of high quality. But I have several friends with one (including a brother-in-law) and as Muhammad suggested, they were all happy until the 40-50k mile mark when things started to fall apart (transmissions, door handles, seats, springs, steering column, etc.)
I just can't help it, I am an incredible Chrysler biggot ever since the K-car scam.