Dealer unable to remove CP...?
08-13-2017, 12:50 AM
#21
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Moronville, Tennessee (Middle TN)
Posts: 2,223
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Yup, Louie, my hooah of a wife surprised me with a birthday present in the form of a divorce complete with restraining order. Her insane *** thinks I am a danger to my kids. I would pull out my own fingernails to protect them. Never had ANY legal trouble, except the one time my (actually) deaf neighbors called the police thinking my son, who was shooting his Red Ryder in my (very large) back yard, was shooting a deer rifle. (Okay, so he WAS shooting at deer, but that's another story)(they've been declared a nuisance animal here in the city limits and so are fair game (literally) as long as certain criteria are met). And as we all know, even a fawn would not even jump if hit by a Red Ryder (unless you put its eye out 
)
So I've been between depression/lawyer/not giving a siht for a month +.
Sorry to disappoint ya but I'm back, sort of...
Danm, you STILL working on that project? I trained my dick to stiffen up on the way outta the store since you started that project (easy, just think Heather Graham with Marisa Tomei), and then I just poke at the release on the power trunk lid...
Really, who looks less silly; you, swinging your foot under the car as you balance your load on one foot, or me, casually giving the ol' "high hard one" to the trunklid for "release"?!
(insert "load" joke here).
BTW Yes, I remember my sig... it was not to be taken literally...
-Tom
) So I've been between depression/lawyer/not giving a siht for a month +.
Sorry to disappoint ya
but I'm back, sort of... I think you mistaken me with someone who likes to break his/her own car. "If it works, why fix it" as I always tell myself. So, if for any reasons, my Head Unit is dead, and I have to replace with a new one and CP appears, then I'll try it.
I just got all my stuff ready for kick the trunk to get it open, haven't had time to do it, it will be amazing if it works.
Cheers,
Louis
I just got all my stuff ready for kick the trunk to get it open, haven't had time to do it, it will be amazing if it works.
Cheers,
Louis
Really, who looks less silly; you, swinging your foot under the car as you balance your load on one foot, or me, casually giving the ol' "high hard one" to the trunklid for "release"?!
(insert "load" joke here).
BTW Yes, I remember my sig... it was not to be taken literally...
-Tom
Last edited by aTOMic; 08-13-2017 at 02:06 AM.
08-13-2017, 02:26 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Moronville, Tennessee (Middle TN)
Posts: 2,223
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BTW, Louis, I need those sequential turn signals some time in the next week, as the court says I have to fix a car for her fat *** morbidly obese body to drive...I might as well throw you $5k, since I estimated the repairs would be $10k and I have a little wiggle room.
08-13-2017, 08:42 AM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
What sequential turn signal? in what car and did it ever work before?
If I can help you to save money, I would and believe it or not I don't need that $5k, you should put in the bank for your kids if you don't need it. I remembered 28 years ago to be exact, no job, no nice cars, no ladies, all alone, full of debts... It was like the end of the world. One word that changed my life "Karma", I treat everything with "Karma" and the rest was history - What you encounter today is the result of what you've done yesterday or months or years before. So, to ensure nothing unpleasant happen tomorrow, or the future, today don't do "bad karma" stuff to ANYTHING.
Whatever I can do to help, if I can, I'll do it quickly for you.
Cheers and good luck,
Louis
08-13-2017, 08:52 AM
#24
AudiWorld Wiseguy
Yep, Q7 CH was 4E0 035 729A. Even came with 4610 firmware, same as I have in the car. My original was same part number, but without "A". I'm sure I'll keep looking out the back but the vision is limited, I know a RVC will help. The eBay outfit that sold me the CH is on the lookout for another "A" unit. Meanwhile I'll swap my old CH back in, at least I'll be able to listen to music again.
Edited to add; don't confuse MMI SW version with the hard code SW version in the CH module. The CH Software version is the number on the label below the part number prefixed with "SW:". The modules are slightly different as the Q7 is slightly different to the A8 electronically. For example it doesn't have the retractable MMI screen, which is seemingly hard coded into the A8 version of the CH as it's not possible to access this function as an option anywhere.
Get a "4E0 035 729A" CH, but make sure it has a SW version number starting with 4E0 which is A8, not 4L0 which is Q7. And yes, they are typically more expensive.
Last edited by dvs_dave; 08-13-2017 at 10:04 AM.
08-13-2017, 09:34 AM
#25
AudiWorld Super User
Component CP and all the problems when replacing components
Although I've done many things with the MMI but I haven't understood the CP aspect of it, but LOGICALLY, the CP should only exists if the CAN Gateway's programmed with components that ARE NOT accounted for by the head unit.
When I retrofit my Back Up camera which have many components must be added, I took screenshot of all components registered in my car. When I got my CAN GATEWAY from a Q7, I had to remove and add some components to match with my car. Some people said CAN GATEWAY should CP, some say not, but I didn't have to do anything.
As in the OPs case, the dealers can't remove CP because they don't understand the system, I don't think anything is wrong with the unit, it's "Operator Error" as usual. The OP has Head Unit from an 09 A8 and a can gateway from a Q7? There are things in the Q7 that don't exist in the 09 A8. What happened if the 09 A8. The TPMS in Q7 is different from A8, Q7 may not have Bose or Bang and the A8 may have.
This is my 06 with all options except ACC.
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_1.jpg
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_2.jpg
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_3.jpg
New option on Q7 CAN GATWAY
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_4.jpg
Cheers,
Louis
When I retrofit my Back Up camera which have many components must be added, I took screenshot of all components registered in my car. When I got my CAN GATEWAY from a Q7, I had to remove and add some components to match with my car. Some people said CAN GATEWAY should CP, some say not, but I didn't have to do anything.
As in the OPs case, the dealers can't remove CP because they don't understand the system, I don't think anything is wrong with the unit, it's "Operator Error" as usual. The OP has Head Unit from an 09 A8 and a can gateway from a Q7? There are things in the Q7 that don't exist in the 09 A8. What happened if the 09 A8. The TPMS in Q7 is different from A8, Q7 may not have Bose or Bang and the A8 may have.
This is my 06 with all options except ACC.
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_1.jpg
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_2.jpg
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_3.jpg
New option on Q7 CAN GATWAY
http://www.dognmonkey.com/media/audi...19/old19_4.jpg
Cheers,
Louis
Last edited by ltooz_a6_a8_q7; 08-13-2017 at 09:47 AM.
08-13-2017, 10:03 AM
#26
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Just to be clear, I installed a CAN Gateway from a 2009 A6 and a CH from a 2009 Q7. The CAN gateway (4L0 910 468A) installed fine, and it has the option for a RVC. The car is fault code free other than motor mount valve errors.
The CH (4E0 035 729A) from the Q7 does not unlock. CH SW Version is 4E0 910 732S, same as the CH I took out (which has a SW date of 30.01.08). The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label). The difference is that the new CH was in a Q7, and I remember seeing that designation in one of the MMI screens (instead of A8 or 4E or whatever) - grayed out.
I guess it's possible that both the dealer and the indy didn't know what they were doing, but as mentioned previously the indy spent 10 years as Service Shop Foreman at the Audi dealership before starting his own business 2 years ago - was recommended to me by both LV dealers as knowing MMI and CP very well - so I would venture to say he has as much, or more, experience with this stuff than most of us do. Certainly more than me. He tried for about 2 hours. He did say that either the software versions were not the same (which validates dvs dave), or else the unit was defective. I just don't know what other software versions to compare between the units. I guess I could try running my 4610 update CDs on the "A" CH, even thought it already has 4610 on it....maybe it's a "different" 4610.
The ebay dealer I bought the CH from said this was the first time he's heard of an Audi unit not being able to have CP removed.
Me, I am just trying to install a RVC and quickly finding it to be a ridiculously complicated pain.
The CH (4E0 035 729A) from the Q7 does not unlock. CH SW Version is 4E0 910 732S, same as the CH I took out (which has a SW date of 30.01.08). The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label). The difference is that the new CH was in a Q7, and I remember seeing that designation in one of the MMI screens (instead of A8 or 4E or whatever) - grayed out.
I guess it's possible that both the dealer and the indy didn't know what they were doing, but as mentioned previously the indy spent 10 years as Service Shop Foreman at the Audi dealership before starting his own business 2 years ago - was recommended to me by both LV dealers as knowing MMI and CP very well - so I would venture to say he has as much, or more, experience with this stuff than most of us do. Certainly more than me. He tried for about 2 hours. He did say that either the software versions were not the same (which validates dvs dave), or else the unit was defective. I just don't know what other software versions to compare between the units. I guess I could try running my 4610 update CDs on the "A" CH, even thought it already has 4610 on it....maybe it's a "different" 4610.
The ebay dealer I bought the CH from said this was the first time he's heard of an Audi unit not being able to have CP removed.
Me, I am just trying to install a RVC and quickly finding it to be a ridiculously complicated pain.
08-13-2017, 10:58 AM
#27
AudiWorld Senior Member
A8 Gen 1 CP VS. A6, Q7, Allroad Gen 2 CP......
Hello Louis,
I think Dave hit the nail on the head, "A8 VS.Q7", I went back and read again to clarify what the OP stated, "Replaced the CH in my 2005 A8, the "new" unit came out of a 2009 Q7 I got through ebay." so the MMI CH he used came out of a Q7, and as Dave stated, I too think that is a problem, as it will have Q7 software.
Also see this quote from A8 as to the GEN 1 and GEN 2 forms of CP.
"There are actually two types of component protection – generation 1 and generation 2.
Component protection generation 1 is implemented in the A8 2003+ vehicles, while the A6/Q7/Allroad 2004+ are using component protection generation 2 for most of the modules, and only few of the modules are using component protection generation 1."
Audi-Resource - Component Protection
.
I think Dave hit the nail on the head, "A8 VS.Q7", I went back and read again to clarify what the OP stated, "Replaced the CH in my 2005 A8, the "new" unit came out of a 2009 Q7 I got through ebay." so the MMI CH he used came out of a Q7, and as Dave stated, I too think that is a problem, as it will have Q7 software.
Also see this quote from A8 as to the GEN 1 and GEN 2 forms of CP.
"There are actually two types of component protection – generation 1 and generation 2.
Component protection generation 1 is implemented in the A8 2003+ vehicles, while the A6/Q7/Allroad 2004+ are using component protection generation 2 for most of the modules, and only few of the modules are using component protection generation 1."
Audi-Resource - Component Protection
.
Although I've done many things with the MMI but I haven't understood the CP aspect of it, but LOGICALLY, the CP should only exists if the CAN Gateway's programmed with components that ARE NOT accounted for by the head unit.
The CP works by way of the VIN, the certain modules that actually use implementation of CP, such as MMI CH, CD player, CAN-BUS gateway, HVAC control, Bose & BO AMP, ETC., these have your original VIN stored on the chips of the original module as posted earlier, so when the Vehicle Identification Number in the replacement used part does not match the VIN of you vehicle, said modules as stated above will go into CP, and as they are used, of course the VIN will not match.
Such modules as the RVC, PDC, Radio Module, TV Tuner, NAV, AMI, and BT, these do not use implementation of the component protection technology
As in the OPs case, the dealers can't remove CP because they don't understand the system, I don't think anything is wrong with the unit, it's "Operator Error" as usual. The OP has Head Unit from an 09 A8 and a can gateway from a Q7?
This is what the OP stated, so I believe Dave is correct, as it will have Q7 software.....
"Replaced the CH in my 2005 A8, the "new" unit came out of a 2009 Q7 I got through ebay."
There are things in the Q7 that don't exist in the 09 A8. What happened if the 09 A8. The TPMS in Q7 is different from A8, Q7 may not have Bose or Bang and the A8 may have.
Again the MMI CH is from a Q7.....
Cheers,
Louis
The CP works by way of the VIN, the certain modules that actually use implementation of CP, such as MMI CH, CD player, CAN-BUS gateway, HVAC control, Bose & BO AMP, ETC., these have your original VIN stored on the chips of the original module as posted earlier, so when the Vehicle Identification Number in the replacement used part does not match the VIN of you vehicle, said modules as stated above will go into CP, and as they are used, of course the VIN will not match.
Such modules as the RVC, PDC, Radio Module, TV Tuner, NAV, AMI, and BT, these do not use implementation of the component protection technology
As in the OPs case, the dealers can't remove CP because they don't understand the system, I don't think anything is wrong with the unit, it's "Operator Error" as usual. The OP has Head Unit from an 09 A8 and a can gateway from a Q7?
This is what the OP stated, so I believe Dave is correct, as it will have Q7 software.....
"Replaced the CH in my 2005 A8, the "new" unit came out of a 2009 Q7 I got through ebay."
There are things in the Q7 that don't exist in the 09 A8. What happened if the 09 A8. The TPMS in Q7 is different from A8, Q7 may not have Bose or Bang and the A8 may have.
Again the MMI CH is from a Q7.....
Cheers,
Louis
08-13-2017, 11:57 AM
#28
AudiWorld Senior Member
Just to be clear, I installed a CAN Gateway from a 2009 A6 and a CH from a 2009 Q7. The CAN gateway (4L0 910 468A)
I have to ask, why are you using parts from an A6 and Q7, the A8 parts are available....
The CH (4E0 035 729A) from the Q7 does not unlock. CH SW Version is 4E0 910 732S, same as the CH I took out (which has a SW date of 30.01.08). The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label).
The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label).
Please post pictures of both MMI CH's
as you state your old MMI CH had a SW of "4E0 910 732S" in a 2005 A8 ??
Just to note, my 2005 A8L w12 had a HW 4E0 035 729, with a SW of 4E0 910 730G with a MMI version of 1070 at time of manufacturing date of March of 05, when I did my RVC, PDC, and TV retrofit I replaced the MMI CH with a HW 4E0 035 729 A, and a SW of 4E0 910 732 T, also my coding went from " Coding: 0010003" to "Coding: 0030003", my replacement MMI CH came from am A8, BUT all the RVC equipment in the trunk came from a Q7, same for the camera on the trunk lid, from a Q7, as none of those pieces implement CP.
Also the "car" does not have MMI 4610 just as the MMI CH, it is all in the MMI CH, not somewhere else in the vehicle.
I guess it's possible that both the dealer and the indy didn't know what they were doing, but as mentioned previously the indy spent 10 years as Service Shop Foreman at the Audi dealership before starting his own business 2 years ago - was recommended to me by both LV dealers as knowing MMI and CP very well - so I would venture to say he has as much, or more, experience with this stuff than most of us do. Certainly more than me. He tried for about 2 hours. He did say that either the software versions were not the same (which validates dvs dave), or else the unit was defective. I just don't know what other software versions to compare between the units. I guess I could try running my 4610 update CDs on the "A" CH, even thought it already has 4610 on it....maybe it's a "different" 4610.
Do not do this, as it already has "4610"
The ebay dealer I bought the CH from said this was the first time he's heard of an Audi unit not being able to have CP removed.
Me, I am just trying to install a RVC and quickly finding it to be a ridiculously complicated pain.
Sorry you are having such a rough time with this...
I have to ask, why are you using parts from an A6 and Q7, the A8 parts are available....
The CH (4E0 035 729A) from the Q7 does not unlock. CH SW Version is 4E0 910 732S, same as the CH I took out (which has a SW date of 30.01.08). The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label).
The car has MMI 4610 and so does the new CH (printed on the outside label).
Please post pictures of both MMI CH's
as you state your old MMI CH had a SW of "4E0 910 732S" in a 2005 A8 ??
Just to note, my 2005 A8L w12 had a HW 4E0 035 729, with a SW of 4E0 910 730G with a MMI version of 1070 at time of manufacturing date of March of 05, when I did my RVC, PDC, and TV retrofit I replaced the MMI CH with a HW 4E0 035 729 A, and a SW of 4E0 910 732 T, also my coding went from " Coding: 0010003" to "Coding: 0030003", my replacement MMI CH came from am A8, BUT all the RVC equipment in the trunk came from a Q7, same for the camera on the trunk lid, from a Q7, as none of those pieces implement CP.
Also the "car" does not have MMI 4610 just as the MMI CH, it is all in the MMI CH, not somewhere else in the vehicle.
I guess it's possible that both the dealer and the indy didn't know what they were doing, but as mentioned previously the indy spent 10 years as Service Shop Foreman at the Audi dealership before starting his own business 2 years ago - was recommended to me by both LV dealers as knowing MMI and CP very well - so I would venture to say he has as much, or more, experience with this stuff than most of us do. Certainly more than me. He tried for about 2 hours. He did say that either the software versions were not the same (which validates dvs dave), or else the unit was defective. I just don't know what other software versions to compare between the units. I guess I could try running my 4610 update CDs on the "A" CH, even thought it already has 4610 on it....maybe it's a "different" 4610.
Do not do this, as it already has "4610"
The ebay dealer I bought the CH from said this was the first time he's heard of an Audi unit not being able to have CP removed.
Me, I am just trying to install a RVC and quickly finding it to be a ridiculously complicated pain.
Sorry you are having such a rough time with this...
My scan of parts I installed for RVC, BUT I do have ACC, hence the "H" on the CAN-BUS Gateway....
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 4E0-910-7xx-07.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 732 T HW: 4E0 035 729 A
Component: Interfacebox H43 4610
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 300IE037525206
Coding: 0030003
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 08192
VCID: 33611BFF2E11
Part No: 4E0 910 611
Component: E0380 BedienteilH01 0040
No fault code found.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 4L0-910-468.lbl
Part No SW: 4L0 910 468 A HW: 4E0 907 468 H
Component: J533__Gateway H06 0071
Revision: 00H06000 Serial number: 0300J107098055
Coding: F7F5DFFF317E0E00
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2D550D87C835
1 Fault Found:
02084 - Component Protection
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100101
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 0
This was a brand new gateway from the dealer, it all functions as it should, but showed CP for a while in scan, now gone...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam. Labels: 4L0-910-441.lbl
Part No SW: 4L0 910 441 B HW: 4L0 907 441 B
Component: J772__Rearview 0030
Revision: --H03--- Serial number: 525PA8-J8Y41CR
Coding: 1021001
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
VCID: 2545F5A790C5
No fault code found.
.
08-13-2017, 12:11 PM
#29
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
So it sounds like the lesson to be learned is, the CH can be upgraded in an A8 to the "A" version, but it needs to come from a later model A8, and a CH from a Q7 (even if the same part number) will not work.
08-13-2017, 12:50 PM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
Originally Posted by 91quattro
So it sounds like the lesson to be learned is, the CH can be upgraded in an A8 to the "A" version, but it needs to come from a later model A8, and a CH from a Q7 (even if the same part number) will not work.
Dave and GG are logically correct. At least we know now, CH are not interchangeable within Audi family.
BTW, adding rvc is not hard if you do it correctly, that's what I love about Audi MMI system.
Cheers,
Louis