kevjo55

I was just quoted 40 hours of labor by the local Audi dealer service department (~$6,500) to replace a power steering return hose on a 2009 S-8 with the V10 5.2 liter Lamborghini Engine. The Service technician says (according to the Audi repair manual) they believe they will need to remove the engine to replace the hose, hence the 40 hours of labor. I know the engine is a very tight fit but does anyone have any actual experience with whether the engine really needs to be removed. $6,500 in labor to replace a $200 hose is hard to believe or take!

Appreciate feedback,
Dazed and Confused
Laguna Beach

Mister Bally

These damn German cars! I know that's the case for certain oxygen sensors and certain D3 engines. Not sure about the V10 as my service manual only covers the V8 & W12 engines. I suggestyou get a copy of the service manual for your vehicle and read up on this subject. I'm not aware of anyone with a bad PS hose on a D3.

haggisuk

I'm going to guess that your pipe has a hole near the front of the car? If it is but a pipe and cut and shut it with a union.

It's been done by a few in the UK, or take the engine out.....

2004A8L

$6.500 / 40 hrs = ~ $162 an hr no thx

MP4.2+6.0

FWIW, I kind of doubt this engine pull idea is right, but I don't own an S8 and it is the tightest motor front to back of the U.S. ones; my W12 is wider but shorter front to back. I tried web but honestly couldn't even find a decent picture of the front of any S8 V10 motor, or anything w/ relevant belt or auxiliary drives. Kind of **** poor web stuff from searching, but that's another story.

Really need to look at a (later) Bentley manual to get a better sense--the later versions of it do cover S8 motor. You probably also need more specific info on exactly which hose too. Commonly it is the high pressure side, but if by chance ;low pressure those could be spliced if somewhat accessible for tiny comparative dollars.

I know from my W12 it's hard to get in there, but A/C compressor and PS pump are positioned differently on the two motors. A/C compressor is very difficult to get out on an S8 (or 4.2 FSI) because of its over engineered shaft drive, and not sure how that comes into play. I do remember when I looked into that area on my W12 for the A/C compressor and pulley, on the S8 it talked about supporting the motor and taking out motor mount on that side. Removing a motor mount and supporting motor is still not remotely like 40 hours though, so that really doesn't compute. And fact they don't seem to identify just accessing relevant side (should be U.S. drivers side) is also concerning. Also, there is always the whole pulling front clip forward routine for a handful of hours--which any dealer should know for the 4.2 timing belt drill. That opens up a bunch of space there, and of course infinitely more if radiator comes out. Obviously radiator pulls aren't 40 hours either, or 20 and shouldn't really even be 10 for experienced mechanics with lifts and factory tools...

Just stand back and ask rationally and big picture as well; does it really take a working week to R&R a motor? 40 hours = five 8 hour days. Like almost any normal sized car type motor in like the known universe of non exotic production cars? Fails a common sense test, let alone some macro sense from D3 general construction and its cousin the W12 I know. Sometimes when you get an absurd quote, they may be telling you they don't really know what they are doing. But sometimes it can be a way of knowing they are pricing themselves completely out of the market and indirectly declining the job.

TSHong

According to Alldata, the labor for 2009 S8 in less than an hour for a P/S return hose. Also my POS system, which uses Epicor/Activant info also states an hour for the return hose.

I think it's time for a second opinion.

s4master1

it does need to be removed.
there's no specific labor operation code for this engine, we get paid 27.9 hrs every time we need to remove one of these engines.
so far we have never remove one where the owner of the car pays for it, usually extended warranties take care of this.

MP4.2+6.0

Wow, what a kludge unfortunately.

Following S4master1's reply, I poked a little more. Looked in Bentley briefly for the V10, which indeed has the infamous "step 1, remove engine" in your face nightmare. But, Bentley/Audi sometimes overdoes that as some of us know, more so with the tighter engines and work arounds we find...

Looked at hose diagram, and pump was just kind of floating in space nowhere near where I would expect it toward drivers side of motor. Huh? Just sloppy documentation, or they couldn't fit it in a more crowded part of the illustration?

Nope, it is somehow bolted high up on the TRANSMISSION side of the motor above the front axle shaft on the U.S. passenger side. Some kind of adapter plate to make what looks like a driven mechanical connection. Even more Rube Goldberg than the A/C drive mount I looked at before for S8/FSI V8/many current Audi motors. Neither one is the W12 set up for my friends there to be able to exhale. Maybe on an R8 V10 with a rear mid design, this is more accessible (if a hydraulic set up that is), but not here.

Thus Bentley says for the pump, both drop motor AND drop that side of the exhaust. Nonetheless, for a line I would look hard at ways to just pull exhaust, maybe lower motor, maybe get subframe elements out of there, etc. Unfortunately I do also recognize that space in general--high up above tranny just behind motor is hardest place to get to on many cars--especially Audis with the front bulkhead and high mounted similarly almost inaccessible steering rack. All pretty inaccessible on my W12 too.

If it is an experienced indy shop you also check with, you have to defer to them and any tricks they may know, or at least get labor hours (and rate compared to dealer) down some.