dvs_dave

In that theoretical scenario yes. But the reality of that scenario is vanishingly small in real world conditions and what the electronic safety net is for. All other times it's able to automatically apportion torque in an infinitely variable fashion front to rear (within the TBR range) much more quickly, seamlessly, and in a far more efficient manner to optimize the constantly varying maximum traction distribution available across both axles.

An electronic clutch system that varies how much the front axle drive is locked to the rear axle just can't do that.

This clip seems to show that function working in reality and resulting in a superior performance from quattro in all scenarios.

Shark_V8

Next time I go to climb the ski-hill I'll keep this all in mind. Some winter notes...

FWD report: Good snows on FWD? Our Focus is a beast, besides being a fantastic driver's car, spaced out it's insane. $400 Walmart Weather-maxx snows I was ripping like none other. So much fun. But my daughter called for rescue she tried to 4x4 it up a mountain and got stuck trying to back down and out.

AWD Report: Lifted the A8L onto a logging road into the bush in search of a spruce, to trim the top off for our tree. For pseudo Land Rover stuff the Audi is pretty darn close. And I'd say the old V8 was pretty cool with its electronic center diff. The performance of Quattro, the dynamics come from it's mechanical packaging. Arguably an obsolete way of going about things that they magnificently were able to evolve into the dinosaur drivetrain that it is today. Energy and tire technology have certainly softened the reasoning.

You can see why Volvo, for example were massaging the FWD/Haldex technology for packaging and energy efficiency. Did you know the Focus is essentially a Volvo?

Haldex: I have been driving around in the TT's too. That is sports-car performance no question. But if were down to one? it would be the Focus. 6.5L/100km vs 10L/100K's for the TT's.

If you wrote down the # of times you really needed AWD because you are crappy driver and can't wring it out of a FWD, well that would be maybe 1, possibly 2 days per year. 2/364 = 0.5% at the energy cost, it makes no sense.

But then we wouldn't be here if we were talking about being sensible.

MP4.2+6.0

I guess this must mean (only) snow and ice world. I'm not really convinced from my own FWD experience across three vehicle lifetimes, two Audi. Heck on a C1 3 speed auto with a Weber and a 4.11 front diff I could chirp the 165 tires at optimistically 110 hp on a good totally dry day, and I could chirp or break them loose them going for second on the 130 HP lightly modded 5 speed 5000. But both were pre- electronic minders. Using winter tires, even on my own driveway at Tahoe with a decent slope up and out, not convinced I could get out of there on only two wheels with winter tires. Almost no one has even with chains on either a FWD or RWD except maybe when we do the old running start trick launching it off the garage floor out the <8' wide door frame and then up the slope.

That aside, I think we also got lost here in the winter trees amidst the real time vs. reactive/clutch diffs. FWD is going to lose every time to AWD for acceleration, dry and way more so wet. RWD loses for that matter too until you get to the second quarter mile in a half mile run with higher HP, and when on any traveled public road Johnny Law would be carting the perp off. Audi in the Piech era used to say 300HP was about the limit to FWD, and the number probably got bumped marginally with more nannies. Sure with a feather you can do it yet more, but I could easily light up the ESP D3 dash show in a straight line up a grade on solid pack or fresh snow at 6800 feet with the NA W12 quattro, winters and all and the extra heft of a W12. Good for 20 or 30 feet max before it would get near scary squirrelly--quiet street I use to check my traction real world.

mishar

This clip is fake ordered by Audi. Simple proof is that ridiculous measuring they add in the slalom part. Drivers simply turned steering wheels later and more on BMW and Mercedes causing that "inferior" performance. Being further from the cone means you should turn sooner and than also less. It is obvious if you want to be rational. If you are looking for a proof that your baby is the best nothing can help.

Jack88

Yeah, I was watching that and wondering about what tires each car was using and whether the driver's were doing anything to exacerbate the behavior. That would be easy to stage, and given that the production value was higher but I didn't see it attributed to any publication, so I also question the source. Proper winter tires in a slalom at a steady speed should perform pretty close to each other on different models, so that wide of a difference makes me question it even further.

Whatever four wheel drive system your car has, the driver still is the determining factor between them. Quattro has always done everything I asked of it, except doughnuts. My A8 wouldn't do doughnuts.

MP4.2+6.0

On the lighter side.

1. The 1985 commercial w/ the then new fangled quattro in the C3. Notice the stick tranny. Way back embedded in the thread is some discussion about the old lockable diffs. The original quattro set up was major cool in how it set up the internal power transfer from the back to front diffs, which was done w/ concentric shafts passing right down the center line of the tranny and diffs. The later automatic ones use the external transfer case we all have with more weight and parasitic losses, plus the later added nannies.

2. The remake, with a much later C6 4.2 A6--contemporary to D3.

3. From some other documentaries like the final one below, they used quasi hidden safety equipment, including a safety cable sometimes visible under the car or on the ramp that you see them trying to perfect in the video. Also notice the out of this world spiked tires; used both times to actually get it up the steeper part.

Happy holidays!

1980's:
mid millennium:
how it's done newer style:

MP4.2+6.0

Donuts? Well then don't try this at home either. A C4 era set up.



D3: Just unbolt the head pipes, lose your common sense, find some buddies to fill the car, and off you go. Totally dry pavement:

Jack88

So it is possible, you just need to fiddle with it a bit. I only tried it in the snow, I haven't done doughnuts on the dry pavement since my IROC needed new tires 8 years ago. It's due for a new set now...

dvs_dave

Ha, and there is the totally predictable response from Mr. Mercedes Kood-Aid.

With all due respect, I think we're done here.

mishar

Truth is one. So it is easy to predict. I would like to know what is "Kood-Aid". It seams that Google's English is not better than mine in this case.