Tesla lays off Supercharger team
05-02-2024, 05:43 AM
#21
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Well, certainly good news for EA! Tesla does suffer greatly at this point from being "first out of the gate". Many of their stations are old, and unable to meet the capabilities of EV's that are coming to market fairly quickly. That was why some of the EV makers were a little reluctant to jump onto the Tesla Supercharger network. I think the big issue is the plug standard. If NACS is truly superior to CCS1, the the universal switch would be a good thing--or does, say CCS2 over real advantages for future capabilities? Is the NACS not "forward thinking"?
If I got to pick, I would pick CCS2, like the rest of the world except for China and Japan. My biggest complaint about SAE J3400 aka "NACS" is that it doesn't support V2X gracefully.
05-02-2024, 06:37 AM
#22
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
While there may also be all kinds of policy reasons surrounding the supercharger network, Tesla seems to be cutting back on investment in more than one area (https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ss-2024-05-01/).
Looks like a plain 'ol cost cutting move which, while done in Musk's classic drastic and tempestuous fashion, sort of like the closing of all Tesla stores some time ago, may prove yet again to have been the correct move from a strategic standpoint. Musk is not one to blunder much when it comes to strategy, but he is definitely bored by details, hence this kind of "screw it, just shut the whole thing down" move. Look for some parts of this decision being walked back, with development continuing at a slower pace and with a sharper focus on cost and benefit.
Looks like a plain 'ol cost cutting move which, while done in Musk's classic drastic and tempestuous fashion, sort of like the closing of all Tesla stores some time ago, may prove yet again to have been the correct move from a strategic standpoint. Musk is not one to blunder much when it comes to strategy, but he is definitely bored by details, hence this kind of "screw it, just shut the whole thing down" move. Look for some parts of this decision being walked back, with development continuing at a slower pace and with a sharper focus on cost and benefit.
As the business builds, the details start to matter more and more.
When a business is mature, it is all details.
I think that the best thing for Tesla and Musk is for Musk to leave. Let someone else run Tesla, and let Musk go off and play with AI and robots or whatever. He might do something big again. Tesla would have someone handling the details. Same thing for SpaceX.
If Musk doesn't think that the Supercharger network is important, he could have spun it off as a separate business, or sold the business. The charging networks need to grow rapidly, doubling in size every two years or so. Failure to grow will be death to the business. Killing a profitable business seems wasteful.
05-02-2024, 07:23 AM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
Hey @WetEV you know how Rob Barrosa said at the CARB meeting for Cycle 4 that part of EA's plan is that NEVI fill gaps that exist in charging infrastructure and that will allow EA to focus more on reliability. I wonder if Elon is jumping on that ship and just pivoting to not needing to build the entire network as NEVI has stepped in.
This will be bad for EV drivers but potentially great for EA and Tesla not having to deal with expensive build outs that take months and months.
Also, the idea of NEVI funded chargers at gas stations, run by the oil companies, selling a kWh of electricity at gas like prices, should terrify us. We are already seeing exactly that at Pilot/Flying J.
This will be bad for EV drivers but potentially great for EA and Tesla not having to deal with expensive build outs that take months and months.
Also, the idea of NEVI funded chargers at gas stations, run by the oil companies, selling a kWh of electricity at gas like prices, should terrify us. We are already seeing exactly that at Pilot/Flying J.
05-02-2024, 11:41 AM
#24
Elon certainly does not value subtlety in management decisions. Sort of like Gary Oldman's character in Fifth Element! Although I disagree with him (Elon, I mean), I can see some logic in what he did. Tesla has a huge lead in its charger network and it will take many months or even years for others to catch up. He can "coast" on the advantage he has built by reducing his current investment in expanding his charger network and so save money while not materially harming his competitive advantage in charging. Now, I think that it would have been much wiser to significantly reduce his Capex in expanding the charging network while maintaining his investment in the Human Resources that know how to expand the network effectively when the time comes, but then nobody is paying me billions of $ to run Tesla!
05-02-2024, 11:59 AM
#25
Club AutoUnion
Elon certainly does not value subtlety in management decisions. Sort of like Gary Oldman's character in Fifth Element! Although I disagree with him (Elon, I mean), I can see some logic in what he did. Tesla has a huge lead in its charger network and it will take many months or even years for others to catch up. He can "coast" on the advantage he has built by reducing his current investment in expanding his charger network and so save money while not materially harming his competitive advantage in charging. Now, I think that it would have been much wiser to significantly reduce his Capex in expanding the charging network while maintaining his investment in the Human Resources that know how to expand the network effectively when the time comes, but then nobody is paying me billions of $ to run Tesla!
05-02-2024, 01:21 PM
#27
Why do you say that? It's the same communication protocol as CCS.
It would just be a matter of the vehicle acknowledging v2x and closing the contactors for the DC side of the connection.
NACS and CCS are nearly just a physical plug difference and a little bit of smarts on the vehicle side to sort out AC or DC path.
It would just be a matter of the vehicle acknowledging v2x and closing the contactors for the DC side of the connection.
NACS and CCS are nearly just a physical plug difference and a little bit of smarts on the vehicle side to sort out AC or DC path.
05-02-2024, 04:05 PM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
Well, EA has just said it is going to install 1000 new chargers in 2024.
https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/elect...charging-2024/
https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/elect...charging-2024/
Last edited by JNealCox; 05-02-2024 at 04:10 PM.
05-02-2024, 05:08 PM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
Well, EA has just said it is going to install 1000 new chargers in 2024.
https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/elect...charging-2024/
https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/elect...charging-2024/
Electrify America Announces its "Boost Plan" to More than Double its Current EV Charging Network by End of 2025 (prnewswire.com)
They have a LOT of work to do.
Current numbers as of today:
Individual chargers: 3892
Stations: 878
So 1000 chargers this year would mean they would need to install 5,000 chargers next year which is more than they have installed to date.